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Event Name: Can the West learn from Islam
Transcription Date: 4/14/2019
Transcript Version: 1

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I wanted to start with some passages from the Quran.  The Quran is literally means "The Reading" or "Recital".  And so they're used to be recited so I'm going to recite a few verses and

then look at after Cleary's translation

of them

<QURANIC Recication>

These were rendered in English by Dr. Cleary:

<Translation removed due to Transcription Errors>

The Quran itself is called a

book of science and the in fact a word

that is used for verses in Arabic

literally means signs and what the Quran

essentially is telling us is that

creation is signing with the whole of


sign and that the Quran itself is fine

for people to in a sense decode the

signs outside of themselves and what the

importance of that is is that we tend to

forget about fines and we tend to most

people go through life really not

reflecting on the sign what I talked

about finding yourself and in the

horizon and another unfortunate matter

and a good example from this passage in

the crown is it says from your tongue in

your complexion

these even tell the sign of God and what

people tend to do is miss read the time

and say for instance because the person

is white they see that as a sign that

they're superior with somebody that is

black for instance and so the result is

is that times becoming when they're

misunderstood have tragic consequences

and the Quran itself reminds us in the

in the chapter called the merciful that

God created man or humankind and talked

them see and this teaching of speech

release Diane which is articulation or a

way of articulating the sign and this is

the gift of language is it is a way of

articulating reality and the I think the

importance of this book in my mind and

dr. Clara's translation in particular or

Western people is that we're living in a

time where people would like to see

confrontation there are a lot of people

that have vested interest in

confrontation I give a recent example in

a an article but outside the foreign

policy journal which is the Journal of

the Council on Foreign Relations

there was an article there that

describes the world as being divided

into three three sections the Confucian

the Islamic and the Christian or the

Western and this man saw the

confrontations of

the future would be between these

different blocks and unfortunately if

things continue as they're going that

scenario is not that unlikely but what I

think mr. Cleary is trying to do is give

us tools right to break down some of

those barriers and that's why I think

his work is so extremely important in

fact I really personally believe that it

is something most important work going

on here you because if if that scenario

is true then we need to learn about the

the peoples of the eat as opposed to

thing with enemies

seeing them as people that they are

trying and that and also the these lot

of people as opposed to seeing the enemy

is saying that they are mindless gods as

well and so that's what he's giving us

because I think the hon describes

something as a book of science but we

need to decode the sign and what he is

in there doing watching people to do is

by putting in a to the symbols that we

understand and he's giving us the tool

of looking at it and being able to

decode for ourselves what is beneficial

for us and there's certainly a great

deal in there and I'm looking forward to

kind of hearing what dr. Cruz has to say

about the benefits of Islam to the West

so with without going on in further

election welcome dr. Cleary and thank

you in school and dr. clear for giving

this opportunity thank you

is it but we all know K I think it's

interesting that my mom then I picked

out some of the same passages to read

tonight without prior discussion say my


now the question can the West last in

this month I think it's pertinent to

point out the West have learned from

this farm already let me read a brief

passage from an article which I think

summarizes this quite well interestingly

this article is from a magazine devoted

to economic issues in time it has a

magazine called future it's published in

the United Kingdom the subject of the

article was the importance of the

cultural aspect of international trade

and diplomatic relations this regards

the relation of Islam of the west and

quote Islamic revival as we can be

interpreted as the second intervention

of Islam in trying to bring Weston

I repeat Western civilization into

balance when Europe of the Middle Ages

preoccupied with a religious supremacy

which even ruled over reason and science

it was Islam which reintroduced Greek

rationalism and science into Europe as

pointed out by Norfolk Islam gave the

West through its Arabian University in

Spain much of the source material and

the Enlightenment which made the West

what it now is today Islam was trying to

reintroduce the idea of the holy into

the Western society which has enshrined

the market as a religious hang I picked

out a number of topics to focus on and

pursue this question the issue of from

what's referred to here at the second

intervention of his mom in trying to

balance Western society reintroducing

the idea of the holy into everyday

society I'd like to focus on mental

culture first and leadership business

society home

and individual conscience and conduct

not part mental culture is comparing the

Prophet said speaking knowledge is

incumbent on every Muslim he also said

the word of wisdom is astray of the one

who believes who has the better right to

it wherever it may be found and the

fourth successor of the Prophet Ali's

did lay hold of wisdom wherever it is

for wisdom stammers in the heart of the

hypocrite until it leaves and comes to

rest by its link in the heart of a

believer so I think that the idea of

seeking knowledge without preconceived

boundary doing the knowledge belongs for

whom it's appropriate it's something

that we certainly can use here in the

West I think particularly we need today

human understanding on a level to catch

up with the power of his the political

and economic and technological

developments that have already taken

place and at the same time I think that

this human knowledge knowledge of human

nature human understanding needs to be

generalized enough widespread enough so

that understanding of human

psychological weaknesses in particular

cannot be used to manipulate people

quite so much now in particular Quran

recommends knowledge of human history

for example in the chapter on Rome

travel the earth and see how those

before you ended up again I think that

in a democratic society where to some

extent individuals are responsible at

least in theory for the behavior of

their governments and societies it's

rather important to understand what the

prospects of given attitudes and the

policies really are and one way of doing

that is understanding what has already

happened to us already and tries what

taken place on the face of the earth

here I think this is an area that is

especially weak in our educational

system I understand the history of

courses the difficult subjects

because it is inherently impossible to

record all the relevant data and so I

think part of them the study of history

needs to be against study of the kinds

of objectives biases that enter into the

reporting and the understanding of

history I think that particular chord

for us today because our general

knowledge of history is heavily inter

larded with political expediency and

also with a great deal of fantasy i

think the popularity of fantasy in this

culture has gotten a bit out of hand to

point where it invades subjects like

history and unfortunately can influence

attitude in a detrimental way because it

really doesn't equip us to deal with

realities are to be able to have some

sense of foresight in predicting how

particular attitudes and policies will

get such a result they're likely to

produce now we've already heard the

passage from the beginning some roam

among the pines of God is the creation

of the heavens and the earth in the

diversity of your languages in their

complexion surely in that is a sign for

the knowing now saying what later on in

the chapter and the chambers the

apartments the Quran explains the

purpose the meaning of this sign in one

sense of humankind it says we created

you from a male and a female and we made

you a plurality of races and tribes for

you to know each other then goes on to

pain the most noble of you in fact in

God's perspective is the most


of you so I take this to mean that

people of different races and tribes are

not superior or inferior to each other

by virtue of their membership in a

particular grace of trying but by virtue

of their individual qualities in a

pluralistic society such as we live in

here I think it's imperative for us to

learn home to

appreciate people and deal with people

on the basis of their their individual

qualities as they really are obviously

stereotypes won't let me do the job now

let me give an example of why I think

this need is so very critical here in

America at this time not only for the

internal peace and harmony of this

society but for the peaceful coexistence

of the society with other societies on

the face of the earth no the Prophet

also is reported to have said seek

knowledge even as far as China now for

the moment I'll take that literally and

quote a recent statement by a scholar a

university professor on the subject of

Chinese thinking perception and

cognition now I'd like to point out that

this was written in 1993 which is

approximately two hundred and eighteen

years after the initiation of commercial

relationships between the United States

and China

I don't know how well-known that fact is

but the first shift from America fell

for China the year after the Revolution

that was one reason why the northeastern

merchants wanted to be free from England

anyway they heard what we've learned and

here's what I confess entertaining after

200 years of acquaintance and I quote

there seems to be little concern this is

about China and Chinese meaning there

seems to be little concern to recover an

intelligible pattern from what seriously

threatens to remain formless and

meaningless jorge luis borges captured

this Western perception in his

well-known citation of quote that

certain Chinese encyclopedia unquote use

the category animal is divided into one

belonging to the Emperor to embalm 318

for suckling pigs five sirens six

fabulous seven stray dogs eight included

in the present classification nine

frenzied ten innumerable eleven drawn

with a very fine camel hairbrush

12 etc 13 having just broken the water

pitcher and 14 that from a long way off

look like flies

now that the distinguished scholar

continues summing up this vast body of

evidence from the perspective of the

more rationalistic Western point of view

the penalty that Chinese must pay for

the absence of that underlying

metaphysical infrastructure necessary to

guarantee a single ordered universe is

what we take to be intelligibility and

predictability now then can you imagine

what international trade and diplomacy

could be like based on this type of idea

now this individual is not anomaly

professor he's director of the Center

for Chinese Studies certain university

was made over there's no no will draw

the curtain a charity described I might

add as one of the leading interpreters

of Chinese philosophy in America today

this book is described in each turn the

author's understanding of the

philosophical and cultural background

make this the most profoundly erudite in

intellectually stimulating translation

and analysis of the great Chinese

military classics

well first of all I what interests me is

that this individual doesn't even

understand the writing of this brazilian

jorge luis borges

so we'll just I repeat there's no

contemporary writer Westerner he looks

for realist and he likes to point out

that there are many different ways of

looking at reality and this is exactly

what he's talking about in this passage

from this mythological should there's no

such Chinese encyclopedia perhaps this

book this scholar and I noticed he

didn't put a footnote on there you know

where where you can find this

encyclopedia anyway so first of all he

doesn't understand his own the forefront

of his own civilization and you know the

idea that the Chinese have sacrificed

intelligibility and predicted

please how can you have a language

without intelligibility or

predictability that language is the

vehicle of intelligibility and

predictability means that people have

one of the most sophisticated written

languages in the world

well let me just conclude this

disgraceful chapter with no an actual

quote from a genuine Chinese proverb

that illustrates I think both the nature

of this type of scholarship and the

danger in society of rejecting this type

of material as though it were and

anything serious or real and that

proverb goes as follows when one dog

barks a thousand dogs howl of course no

conception of predictability in there

all right let me turn the leadership

obviously we can only hope and pray that

the leaders of our nation do not go

through standards of Chinese studies or

investment wind but the Chinese have on

their mind now at work leadership is

concerned this is something that I

really believe in a Democratic Society

is giving imperative for everyone who

studies issues with leadership whether

or not they're formally in position of

leadership and that's not just because

of the responsibilities of being a

member of a Democratic Society but it's

also responsibilities be managing

yourself now here in America

particularly where we don't have much in

the way of extended family for life with

us don't anyway and the the fabric of

society in some senses rather looser

then surely any more traditional

societies the responsibility of managing

oneself and taking care of one's own

business therefore becomes more and more

critical the more ones left to one's own

devices let me begin by quoting

again Ali the fourth success of the

province who said whoever sets himself

up as a leader of other people should

start educating himself before educating

other and let him teach by his conduct

before teaching by his tongue and the

education and refinement of oneself is

more worthy of respect than the

education and culture of other people

and the Quran we have actually many

examples of recommendations for behavior

that could be referred to requisites of

leadership and example ISM the chapter

in love might adopt the middle course in

your walk and lower your voice for the

worse this sounds is the brain of an ass

keep that in mind around election time

flash on the television you get up there

you just sign asking that out a number

of things with the Prophet which I think

are relevant to dealing with the

requirements of leadership in terms of

sincerity truthfulness modesty fairness

and justice the Prophet said anyone whom

God has placed in charge of the citizen

name but he does not take care of them

in theory will not even get a sense of

fairness the Prophet also said god

forbid paradise to any ruler of a Muslim

citizen Enoch who dies all he is

deceiving them in one of the most

interesting things we do not assign our

tea to one who asked for it or to one

who covered it imagine what elections

would be like under those conditions the

catsuit ones we're running away but I

think it is a very cogent point the idea

that in public service to the public

service not for the the privileges and

perk that the individuals who are in

those positions may maintain and I think

among the citizenry of this country

there is a really a great cry for this

kind of authentic morality among the the

politicians in the leaders and here's

another example I think that there is a

great public outcry for this type of

fairness the Prophet said what destroyed

those before you was that whenever an


install they would let indeed but when

one of the powerless among them stone

they would inflict the legal punishment

on that day for thinking about now I

hear if you feel enough let me give you

a prophetic each other people how to do

it you know okay once when the Prophet

was sending one of the companions to the

Yemen to be the governor he said beware

the plea of the oppressed for his areas

no screen between it and God now let me

turn to business matters I think the

passage from this futures magazine I

quoted and at the outset I think the

point of about the West having enshrined

the market and a religious tenant is

well taken and I think that is the

legitimate criticism and that it really

it leaves out too much of the whole

human being in order to be a

satisfactory guide a standard for what a

human life should be let me begin by

quoting the Quran from chapter women do

not consume your wealth among yourselves

in vain but may their betrayed I have a

mutual consent among you here I think

the expression mutual consent is

important to remember now there's quite

a bit in the things of the Prophet about

business ethics I think this is a

fascinating subject I've just got a

couple year with illustrates fundamental

principles one of which is the idea of

generosity charity the Prophet said may

God be merciful toward someone who is

generous in buying and selling and in

demanding payment the Prophet also said

there was a man who lent money to people

he used to say to his servant when you

give to someone who was poor be

forgiving that God may be forgiving to

us and that man met God and God pardoned

him now it comes to some more technical

things which have to do with the actual

structure of an economy

let me quote the Quran on this one first

whatever you give from excess profit

that it may grow even more invested in

people's wealth does not increase with

God but what you give in charity

speaking the presence in favor of God is

what will be compounded whatever you

give from excess profit that it may grow

even more invested in people's wealth

does not increased with God now you ever

wonder why I'm on the news when they

tell you they're gonna make a report on

the economy they tell you what the Dow

Jones averages today like that of effect

that money is not in the economy

actually anything did you think of that

some years ago there was a controversial

book partially translated here in

America called the Japan that can say no

and one of the offer was a chairman of

the Sony Corporation and this was his

criticism one of the main criticisms of

American business that money was

regarded as a means of making money and

not as a means of fostering production

now the profit for bad people to resell

foodstuffs they had purchased unless

unintel they had received full measure

and had paid the price and fault now I

take it to mean something singular that

arbitrage and speculation I'm not really

an honorable way of making money and are

not really good for the whole body of

the economy I think we've already had

the proof of that this is one reason why

I find the ancient injunctions so

interesting now here are some general

statements about business ethics and

this said by the way is one of the

so-called sacred hadeeth this is saying

not as a prophet but the thing the

Prophet relates as having been revealed

by God but not included in the Quran the

Prophet said God had said I will be the

adversary of three types of people

on the Day of Resurrection those who

offer in my name but then betray their


those who sell a free individual and

consume the price obtaining and those

who hire workers and have work done that

do not give them their wages so I'll

turn to some general things having to do

with society here again that I think

these they're areas where the need that

we have here is quite obvious from our

everyday experience of what we see in

here you read some definitions of

righteousness from the Quran and chapter

on the cow it says it defines the

righteous in these times both we donate

goods and money in spite of their love

for it to relatives and orphans and to

the poor and Wayfarer and to the needy

and for freeing slaves and continues and

those who fulfill their promises when

they make them and who are patient in

suffering adversity and hard times they

are the truthful ones and they are the

conscientious and also it says do not

nullify your charity by reminders of

your generosity or by abusive behavior

and do those who spend their wealth to

be seen by the people I think that's

particularly pertinent package the idea

that charitable deeds whether individual

or collective shouldn't be just rachelle

they should be effective this is why I

think that in rebuilding a society

that's praying really critical to build

it from its real membership which is the

people rather than to imagine that all

we need to do is articulate program and

passed legislation so family of Iran

also has a good definition of the

conscientious they are those who are

generous in good times and bad and to

withhold anger and imparting people

the Chaplin women had said be good to

your parents and relatives and to

orphans and paupers and to neighbors

close by and neighbors removed and to

the companion at your side and to the

traveler and to your ward now there's a

great deal of mention of charity in

Islam I find it quite edifying and that

statements of the Prophet about charity

include both self supports and giving to

others at the very at the most basic

level of individual economic

independence the Prophet said charity is

incumbent upon every Muslim people

asking o prophet of God

what about one who had nothing to give

the Prophet said then one works with

one's hands to support oneself and to

give to others they act and if one

cannot find work the Prophet said then

one should be good and refrain from evil

for that in fact is charity for the one

who death though now that's not also

hard once again I do think that perhaps

no verifying thing about this attitude

is the idea that whatever your whatever

that you're doing even if it's working

for your own support already carry for

others and involved as part of here as a

part of your task this is a natural

recognition of a basic kind of the

social nature of the human being the

basic attitude reflecting this

recognition is illustrated in this thing

of the Prophet none of you as a believer

until you like for others would you like

for yourself now of course when we think

about that we need to think about what

we like for ourselves and whether that

is really something worthwhile one thing

in particular I think on the subject of

Western society and the possibility of

learning from Islam we might focus our

attention on this well I might now call

the market niche homo and entitled men's


I get it some catalog it just came we

have a day quite felicitous me and let

me just read a couple of the

descriptions of the books under the

subject of men spirituality which I

think will underscore the need for for

the possible use of some of the Islamic

teachings on on living in society here's

one about this subtiles reflections on

becoming a man and it says the author

wrote these ten things because quote it

is increasingly harder to grow up male

in America there are no rites of passage

fathers are at a loss of words

when discussing what it means to be a

man the male child grows up uncertain

who he is

uncertain who he should be we are born

now we must learn to be a man


there is nothing inside the men's


this book takes you behind the scenes of

one of the most important and least

understood phenomena on reason time what

is driving men in ever-increasing

numbers into the woods to become and

share grief that they can't articulate

in their everyday lines what are men

discovering that keeps them coming back

to support groups

week after week now I don't know myself

I don't go to these things so I can't

after this what are they discovering but

I do think that there is some relevant

teaching in the Quran about this I quote

there is no good in most of their

private conferences except those who

enjoy charity or justice or

reconciliation among people now the

Prophet said one who looked after the

widowed and the poor is like the warrior

who struggles in the way of God or like

one who prays all night and fastball

there so what I would like to ask is a

lot of times out in the woods beating a

drum what about the widow are they out

there discussing what they can do about

the widows in the poor

- Elka I also hope there are no weekend

workshop widows you know that luck kinds

of widows in this civilization we even

talk about football widows and they

forward opening like that I think we

will find the abject failure of movement

those whose movements whose real aim

should be reconciliation among people

reintegration I think we will find them

to the abject failures if they do

actually create a new type of widowhood

so fellows if you want to be a man it's

not that there's no advice for example

the Prophet said when a man spends money

on his family I have a good deed and for

him it is a sacred act of charity the

Prophet also said you will not spend

anything in seeking the favor of God

without being rewarded for it even what

you provide for your wife and there are

many other opportunities here's another

and a beautiful story a prophet related

while a man was walking he became

extremely thirsty so he went down into a

well and drank from him then he came out

only to find a panting dog eating moist

earth and thirst

the man said the same thing had happened

to this creature has had happened to me

so he filled the shoe climbed out

holding it in the teeth and that gave

the dog water to drink

then God thanked the man and forgave him

people asked o Messenger of God are we

rewarded for our Treatment of Animals

the Prophet said there is a reward for

your treatment of every living thing now

here is that a nice saying which gives

something of a foretaste of what that

reward in the Prophet said God rendered

mercy into a hundred parts keeping 99

parts and ending one part down to that

by virtue of that one portion creatures

are merciful to one another such that

even the mayor if her hooves away from

her whole fearing she may step on it the

Prophet also said whoever is not

merciful will not be shown there

so one thing one can do while exercising

one affinity without one portion of

mercy on earth if cap one's mind up to

that time the ninety-nine were held back

and it surely is coming now let's go to

the home and family briefly I will just

touch upon being shall we say the center

of this unit the husband wife

relationship in the chapter enrollment

sense and among the signs of God is

having created for you mates from

yourselves that you may feel at home

with them and got the love and kindness

between you surely and that is a sign

for a reflective people and in the

chapter on women it says be reverent

toward God

by whom you ask of each other and be

reverent toward relationships for God is

watching over you now I'd like to read a

passage from a writing of a

distinguished Spanish Muslim of the 13th

century discussing the inner dimension

of the relationship between a man and a

woman in the context of explaining he's

saying of the Prophet three things in

this world have been made dear to me

women perfume in prayer wearing his

repose the coolness of my eyes now the

author says explaining this statement

about women when man contemplates God

and woman his contemplation rests on

that which is passive if he contemplates

God in himself he contemplates God in

that which is active and when he

contemplates God alone without the

presence of any form and all issued

there from his contemplation corresponds

to a state of passivity

in regard to God without intermediary

consequently his contemplation of God

and woman is most perfect for it is been

God as at once active and passive

that he contemplates whereas in the

purely interior contemplation he

contemplates God only in a passive way

so the profit and addiction and peace be

upon him was to love women because of

the perfect contemplation of God and

then one would never be able to

contemplate God directly in the absence

of all support for God's absolute

essence is independent of worlds but as

divine reality is inaccessible in

respect to absolute essence and there is

contemplation only in a substance the

contemplation of God in women is the

most intense and the most perfect and

the union that is most intense is the

conjugal act he who loves women in this

manner loves them by divine love but he

who loves them only by natural

attraction deprives himself of the

inherent knowledge of this contemplation

well I realize it might take a while to

develop this type of mindfulness and the

manhood of our nation but do we really

have a choice once again can we really

legislate away the kinds of abominations

and practicing us went in here

apparently not we do have laws I think

what we need is the change in heart

maybe people approach all the relations

but particularly especially relation

with one's meat the most intimate

relation in the world now of course

that's rather lofty let me come down to

your level we can perhaps understand

more immediately someone asked the widow

of the Prophet what the Prophet used to

do at home

she said he used to remain occupied

working in Christ

then he would go out when he heard the

call to prayer telling me sum up some

teachings that are I have to do

basically with your individual

conscience in your individual conduct in

the Quran that says in the chapter the

epic humanity is indeed at a loss except

those faiths and do good works and

enjoying truth and justice upon one

another and enjoying patience upon one

another no person be diminutive people

are desk assistant see why one of the

higher and a purgative de people health

care for Americans while arguing with a

pea paradise both it's really matter on

a visual conscious posture for


now just like charity is regarded as

part of a very fundamental and basic

economic responsibility

similarly individual piety it's not only

expressed in terms of social behavior

which is as much a form of worship

actually as a ritual performed

conventionally part as religious this

lemma calls from sayings for the problem

who ever believed in God in the last

days should not wrong his neighbor and

whoever believes in God in the last day

should treat his guests generously and

whoever believes in God in the last day

should speak of good or keep silent the

Prophet also said all that is

objectively recognized as good and fair

the sacred charity and he said the best

of you are the most good-natured so

religion isn't supposed to make you


and NASA to your neighbors now here's

one I think very very significant for us

two days the Prophet said God disregards

for me

whatever insidious suggestion occurs to

my people as long as they do not act on

it or express it in speech God

disregards for me whatever insidious

suggestion occurs to my people as long

as they do not act on it or express it

in speech I think that's important for

us today because the society we live in

here is not merely simply a permissive

society and as we often hear is the

suggestive Society suggestion is pounded

into us over the waves and even what is

not yet permitted it's already being

suggested so I think that the is it

certain any sort of nonsense can go

through one's head because also knots

actually projected through there even

through the overt media so if we are not

able to analyze it and dismiss it and

understand it's real and from at least

we can refrain from speaking about it

and acting on it and thereby promoting

the actualization of insidious

suggestion so ignoring see consider your

suggestion I think is one over one of

the best suggestions the prophet has for

us today


well let me just conclude with a few

general remarks this has to do with the

place of religion and everyday life and

the melding of religion in everyday life

again going back to the first statement

I read about the the idea of

reintroducing the sense of the holy now

in the Quran it says there isn't a

there's to be no compulsion in religion

there is to be no compulsion in religion

I realized that this is not the image of

Islam that is commonly projected in the

West I think that one reason for this is

because religion in general not just

Islam but but religion in general here

is often associated with compulsion and

compulsiveness hardly I think this might

have to do with the history of this

country and the reason why lots of the

people originally came here had to do

with religious persecution which

unfortunately and continue at once may

not onto these shores but I think that


fanaticism compulsiveness in religion as

in anything actually tend to alienate

and alienate an individual from other

people and of course the group from the

larger body society and you can

contaminate the individual from his own

real nature I believe so it says in the

Quran 2x tests in your religion the

Prophet said to his companion Abdullah

have I not been informed that you fast

all day and stand in prayer online

Abdullah replied yes o Messenger of God

the Prophet said don't do that fast then

eat and drink stand in prayer then sleep

for your body has a right over you and

your wife has a right over you and your

guest has a right over you

and I can't think of any better way to

end and by quoting them from the ending

of the my second chapter of the Quran

which again illustrates I think this

attitude that religion is supposed to

uplift us not intimidate us and

terrorizes the Quran says God does not

compel a soul to do what is beyond its

capacity it gets what it has earned and

is responsible for what it deserves our

Lord please do not punish us if we

forget or we errant and please our Lord

do not place on us a burden like that

you put on those before us and please

our Lord and do not make us carry that

for which we lack the strength and

please grant us pardon give us every on

us you know Peter helps against time

great now if from the audience

this will be the time and bring them up

please come to the mic if you will

oh well I guess we all have enough to

think about tonight

that's good we don't really have to do

this ritual

oh please step up to the mark what I

would like to hear you talk about own

bit well the relationship of women in

the society I understand that when

they're not allowing them all that true

and it's not do they have any formal

formal place or rituals and all that to

worship or whatever and then

particularly what is their relationship

in society women okay well the first I

can quote the proper thing if your wife

wants to go to the mosque don't prevent

her so it's any wives are prevented from

going to the mosques that's on their off

their husbands have to answer the proper

for that and it is going record also the

positive set aside time special times

for the women to talk with him I didn't

talk a lot about the issue of women in

society we're staying for a couple of

reasons it's one of those actually it's

one of the areas that is clouded with

lots of prejudice in Western society and

some of these prejudices are actually

quite ugly one thing is that this fire

if I do think about that but women

attended here on that evening precisely

able to evolve every get 7 million new

opener on this is it among it's about

within 4 or 3 also says in the words of

God I certainly do not overlook the work

of any worker among a male or female it

seems to suggest right of women to work

in society

I read in a interesting book by a

contemporary young writer on this

particular subject who said that the

there are a minority a song from women

who have objections to traditional role

in society his estimation of this is

that it's because the men are I'm going

to be men so I'd rather I'd like to

conclude this with this by saying that I

can be I think that in song talk to

learn from this long just to start with

on this one is that can't even really

see all of the place with one gender

delay because that isn't the way society

really is mmm how can talk about the

place of anybody in society and as we

talk about it relates that people those

other people in society so I think are

the real thing for us to ask ourselves

is how we normal to each other and if

there's any weekend or how can we event

so to me that is what you were there's a

lot about a lot of things written on

this specific issue issue in so called

women's issue but I think really if the

real issue is a couple vision actually

how many when you get along with each

other I thought of that I don't see

where where there is any discussion

frankly speaking no place for men and

women in society well sorry that I know

that was not terribly no what was that -

mother you got too harsh

anyone else you talk about the

historical interpretation of jihad and

then maybe what the practical value of

it is it's an islamic spirituality and

maybe how we could apply it out here

and understand the Islam better okay so

has me struggle okay oh this actually

brings up an interesting answer to the

soma question for women that's actually

saying for women's you have this taken

care of her husband I think that's

really true that's the prophetic general

statement yeah

now I think there's quite a lot to that

station let's think about that a little

bit um but I won't go further for me

I'll let y'all meditate on that one yeah

one of my favorite sayings of the

Prophet on this subject is we've

returned from the lesser struggle to the

greatest struggle and the left the

struggle is the struggle against an

enemies of truth

you know when over it attempts to

destroy the innocence and truthfulness

struggling against that is yeah that's

the lesser struggle the greatest

struggle is struggling against one's own

egotism so now I know what we certainly

yeah we have discussions about this in

our civilization here and I think we

definitely do need a more extensive

jihad against our own ignorance and

willfulness or any well okay very good

thank you very much