said was that I feel that that when we
you see if I come out and say yes we
condemn these absolutely but we have to
realize that what causes these things
that begins to sound like justification
in the minds of a lot of people and I
think that's very dangerous I think yeah
you know I went a few days before the
hijacking you said in a speech that the
u.s. stands condemned it had a great
great tribulation coming to it this is
something that I've heard from my
Christian father for years he read a
book by Ramsey Clark the former attorney
general on war crimes in Iraq this is
something that is known today you're
telling me that kind of talk is
dangerous was it not dangerous
two days before I and I think I think
that it is legitimate for anybody in
America who wants good for that people
to remind people of their moral
obligation I think that American people
have a moral obligation to understand
things at a deeper level it's a
representative government we pay taxes
we have to realize that many of the
weapons that are flooding the world are
coming from France from England from
America from Israel I really do not
understand the contradiction between the
fact that a moment ago you're saying
that there is a danger in explaining the
fact that it's us farm yeah hold on yeah
I think you're really mixing words here
what I was saying was what in sympathy
with Margaret Thatcher that when she I
think when we look at some Tavor 11th I
have no theological authorities say that
was a punishment from God I don't know
the mind of God I can't say that that's
a tragic event it should not in any way
what I was speaking was in general terms
that I think that there are many things
happening in the world and I have not
just said that about America by the way
I've said it about Muslim countries I've
said it about my own self I stand
condemned I mean in theological terms we
all fall short of the glory of God and
and and you might be hearing me speak as
a politician right now or in political
terms but don't forget I am
theologically trained I speak in
theological language Abraham Lincoln in
his second inaugural address
said to the American people the Civil
War is a punishment from God for the
treatment of African American people
knew he called them in the United States
why could he say that to the American
people and they didn't all get shocked
because they were people very fluent
with the Bible if you read the Bible it
talks about that if you transgress the
boundaries of God you're punished for it
now for me to say this is a punishment
that's not my role but I think we need
to reflect on what's going on in the
world not just in America I'm interested
in your role because here you are as we
say you're brought up as a Christian you
convert it you're now a tithing no
president I didn't abandon my core
values when I when I entered into this
well nothing my parents taught me my
core values none of them were abandoned
what I'm wondering is why it is that the
president can come to you almost one
time I don't think that wants me to be
called a presidential adviser you have
been Bush's pet Muslim a collaborator
Western Patsy I think that you're always
going to find that Muslims that that
really attempt to go out and do
something I think that there are there
is a provincial ISM amongst certain
segments of Muslims that there's a
provincial ISM that's very dangerous I
think we find it in the West I think
that in the time we're living in we need
to break this stuff down we need to
build some bridges I think the world is
is too polarized right now I think
bridges need to be made we have to get
out of this type of language because
it's a very dangerous language black and
white us versus them the world's a
little more interdependent I think the
fact that over a thousand Muslims which
is probably 20% of people killed in the
World Trade Center that were Muslims
which represents their statistical
numbers out in the real world 200 of
which were illegal Bangladeshi
immigrants which is also a tragic
metaphor for for for what's going on how
easy is it as a Muslim and presumably
strive to be a good Muslim to live in a
non-muslim country I think that the
freedoms that exist in America in
Britain I think they're extraordinary
and I don't want to lose them I really
don't I think the Bill of Rights of the
United States of America is an
incredible document I think that that
much of what is in the Constitution is
very consistent with Islamic legal
theory
and yet also turn on the television guru
walking past bars I mean that well you
have a choice nobody I've never
nobody's ever put a gun to my back and
said go into the bar and have a drink
nobody never put a gun to my back watch
pornography
nobody's ever but if there is a thinking
among the Muslim community that to be a
good Muslim it is easier it is best to
live among other Muslims you know it's
interesting that I've met many
immigrants who said it's much easier for
me to be a Muslim in the West than it is
to be a Muslim in the Muslim world I
swear to God
I've met many Muslims and because
there's there's more freedom in this
country I don't think you realize I
would hope because you seem a very
intelligent person but there's not
freedom of assembly in Muslim countries
Wilson's can't even get together people
can't in most Muslim countries there's
not freedom of speech really do you
realize that are you aware of that I'm
seriously I've lived there do you know
that I visited people in the Muslim
country and there visited by secret
police to ask what we talked about what
type of terror is that I mean isn't that
is not when it I believed her what about
that said what is your view of the
Taliban regime they said I think the
Taliban is a tragic result of the fact
that that Afghanistan was in a it was a
victim of the Cold War it was invaded by
Russia
it was used militarily by America in a
sense America did them a great favor by
helping them get rid of the Russian
aggressor but after they did that at a
cost of 1.5 million Afghani lives
imagine that suffering 1.5 million
people the mining of their country
millions of mines everywhere hold on and
then America their own CIA analysts in
the administration have admitted that
they warned them don't walk away from
this there was no martial plan think
about Nazi Germany the Nazis went in the
Germans went insane 13 years after the
Versailles Treaty out of the humiliation
of the Versailles Treaty the Weimar
inflation the country went insane the
Muslims have been living in a lot of
humiliation for over a hundred years
I've explained it to me just just
briefly if you you are a nit Muslim
living in the West and you're yet you're
saying that all these Islamic countries
all of them because not all of them know
they've got it wrong I think a lot of
them do and there's a lot there's a lot
of good in the Muslim world there's a
lot of being arrogance in that in what
in my position
yes it's using its the Western culture
system value system is is fine and good
and the right way to do things I think
you know I think hold on I did I'm not
melodramatic all right things are
black-and-white really I don't see them
I think there's a lot of problems in the
West I really do I think we have a lot
of very serious social problems I think
the Enlightenment ideals the things that
we're committed to ideologically most of
them are very consistent with Islam and
I think that's the best of the west and
that is a tradition I grew up in my
father was a humanities teacher and and
and I'm committed to many of those same
ideals on the other hand there's a lot
of decadence there's a lot of things
that troubled me greatly about the West
the breakdown of family all of these
things Muslims Muslims are as distressed
as many Western people about these
things in these societies I think good
Western people are as distressed about
these things I think television a lot of
what's on television bothers many many
good fair-minded Western people for the
Muslims a lot of this stuff is shocking
because they still live within the
framework of a traditional ISM that has
become rather quaint in the West as the
use of handsome alright well thank you