think a lot of people see this
is that
conservativism and
intellectualism are
almost mutually exclusive and
and very
often the the conservative view
is a
kind of it's almost we've got
some
troglodytes out there that that
tend to
present conservativism in a way
that
smacks of an almost anti
intellectual
approach and that's very
different from
say a Burkean the type of
conservativism
which acknowledged gradualism
and the
importance of change yes
absolutely III
mean you I've I've suffered
this all my
life that well Lisa ever since
I became
a conservative in which was in
May 1968
in Paris yeah yeah I didn't
know I
hadn't a very clear idea of how
to
articulate it all I knew was
that when I
looked down the street and saw
all these
rowdy students throwing stones
at
policemen I I just said to
myself
whatever they believed I and
then I
didn't know what it was and and
then it
was a sort of lifetime's work
to find
out what the opposite is and I
somewhat
arrogantly came to the
conclusion
it's if you start thinking
about
politics in an intellectual way
you are
likely to be on the left
because that
provides a systematic solution
and
answer to their questions give
puts it
all in a system and and also
gives you a
rather dignified and
self-congratulatory
place in the system but once
you started
thinking if you think a bit
harder and
longer about it you'll move
back to what
you would have been if you had
never
thought at all you know and
that's what
that's my view it's what an
intellectual
conservative is he's it's someone
who
articulates the real reasons
for not
having reasons say that again
someone who articulates the
real reasons
for not having reasons but just
feeling
and doing what's right right
well I think you know is I
think it's
Yates Yates has a wonderful
poem Easter
1916 and and in there he has
the
lettuce mock at the great that
had such
burdens on the mind and toiled
so hard
and they to leave some monument
behind
he wrote that when he witnessed
some
Irish revolutionaries destroy a
beautiful house of a very
wealthy landed
English Anglo Irish person and
in a lot
of ways that poem articulates
that idea
that it's very easy to destroy
and tear
down it and and one of the I
think one
of the things that's so
tempting for
many people because the world
is so
troubling to so many people and
and so
many people suffer in this
world and and
a lot of what the the liberal
left tends
to to rely on is is that sense
of
indignation that a lot of
idealistic
people feel because there are
things
that are deeply wrong with the
world but
then when we look historically
at how
when these people have gotten
into power
whether they're I mean people
tend to
forget that the Nazis were
actually they
were quite bohemian in a lot of
ways
they they had a lot of leftist
politics
certainly their
was tend to be collectivist and
and and
they were National Socialists
as opposed
to being internationalist but
when they
when they get into power they
they tend
to really really tear things
down and
don't give us yeah well I I
think
there's an explanation of this
it's um
what Hegel calls the labor of
the
negative right that the initial
instinct
on the left is that negative
instinct
things are wrong and it must
they must
be rectified
they can only be rectified
however by
the seizure of power and so
we're going
to seize power in order to
rectify them
but once you've got the power
the
negative is still there in your
heart
because that it's driven you
all along
you know that's the thing that
has
inspired you so you set about
destroying
things at punishing people you
Indic you
find classes who are to blame
you know
the Jews the bourgeoisie
wherever it
might be and you don't get out
of that
negative structure and I feel
that's
what I felt very strongly in
1968 you
know that okay of course there
are
things that are wrong in France
but
there are also things that are
beautiful
them right and you've got to go
through
this and come back and rescue
those
things which is much more
important than
destroying a few obstacles along
the way
right
Blake has a interesting the he
says the
hand of vengeance found the bed
to which
the purple tyrant fled the iron
hand
crushed the head and came a
tyrant in
its stead and that tends to be
a pattern
that we see again and again
that when if
you have for instance in Iran's
a good
example of that I mean Civ
aquas was one
of the major reasons for the
revolution
itself because the heavy
handedness of
the Shah is his secret police
which he
probably had no idea they very
often
live in these silos and bubbles
yeah but
they've got you know the secret
police
the apparatus all comes back
yeah and
and the disappearing the people
that
disappear all disappear again
so I mean
this is
part of the problem but again
it's still
this fundamental problem for
instance I
mean one of the things that
that you
talked about in in fool's
frauds and
firebrands is is the idea of
power being
the way in which everything is
articulated that the critique
is about
power I mean Foucault is a good
example
of that of somebody who just
saw
everything in terms of power
but there's
there's definitely truth
embodied in
that and I think that's why
it's so
seductive for so many people
I mean we have to deal with
with the
fact that so many people are
seduced by
this because they experience
especially
marginalized and
disenfranchised people
yes that is true
but of course in the
intellectual world
it's extremely corrupting to
see things
in this Foucauldian way you
know you
instead of asking the question
is what
her hands are saying true I ask
the
question you know what power is
advancing behind that you know
you then
disappear from the picture
right and
also what you've said
disappears from
the picture yeah I'm not no
longer
engaging with you I - thou at
all right
because without the concept of
truth
there is no real engagement
between
people all I am seeing is the
power
that's speaking through you and
that of
course you can look at the
whole of
culture in that way which is essentially
what the postmodern curriculum
is taking
one writer one philosopher one
musician
after another and just talking
about you
know Susan McCleary on
Beethoven that
this is fantasies of rape
speaking
through this music you know
it's
extremely boring after works is
totally
panicking it lands I mean
things I say
about critical theorists you
know that
if it was a lens that it might
be useful
sometimes to just peer through
that lens
but but it's a corneal
transplant you
know and a big metaphor yeah it
becomes
the only way yeah and I've seen
one of
the things that I've seen with
students
in my own teaching experience
is you
know I've had critical
theorists in my
classes and whenever they raise
their
hand I
could almost verbatim tell them
what
they're going to say the
response that
they're going to give to
whatever was
said yes and and well then we
need to
understand why it is so
seductive that's
my point
it troubles me how seductive
it's been
and it also I grapple in my own
self
with the amount of genuine
injustice in
the world you know that takes
place on a
daily basis and I mean for
instance you
know their attacks on
capitalism to me
the corporate world today is so
powerful
and to use a favorite term in
that in
that world is hegemonic you
know this
idea where monoculture becomes
becomes
so imperious and we've seen so
many I
mean I'll give you an example
when I was
young one of the treats in my
supposed
to go to a bookstore bookstores
have
pretty much been wiped out in
the United
States because of these
corporations so
small bookstores are not able
to survive
so now you have you you had
borders but
then borders goes bankrupt mmm
and and
then now we've got we're left
with
Barnes and Noble and and and so
if you
go in who's picking those books
who's
actually choosing what books
like if you
go for instance to to the teen
section
it's almost all about vampires
and
really weird occult and stuff
it's not
like you know the Hardy Boys or
Nancy
Drew mysteries it's it's very
corrosive
ideas we slightly changed the
topic now
we're not really talking about
this
postmodern obsession with power
right we
are we're talking about well
changing
the structure of life right and
but for
me a lot of I mean I'll give
you an
example
Herbert Marku say who I'm not a
fan of
button by any stretch but when
when I
read some of his works I was
struck by
real insights about things that
were
very troubling about American
culture
one dimensional man
this idea of a consumer and and
life as
consumption and and and losing
me I mean
his solutions is a whole other
problem
but and this is something I
think that's
very seductive is that the the
critical
aspect of of Marxism and neo
Marxism has
always been it's always had a
resonance
in a lot of people there's
something
very very powerful about it
when you
when you get to solutions and
how we
deal with these things we're in
another
realm but if if I think if
conservatives
don't really address the the
real
serious critiques that are
there you
know about the status quo yeah
I think
you're right they have they
have perhaps
neglected those critiques but
you know
as I saying earlier the purely
negative
approach to the status quo is
simply
going to perpetuate this
negativity and
has done if you're not the
typical
conservative in my reading of
events is
someone who looks around
himself and he
finds things that he loves you
know
anything's when those things
are
threatened they're vulnerable
I've got
to protect right and it's not
often that
you find on the left somebody
who looks
around and finds things that he
loves
it's um it's always something
that's
gone wrong something that is
even
hateful and you've got to
mobilize
against it if you've lost any
sense that
actually the world is lovable
and that
there are things there for to
be rescued
in it you have actually lost
the sense
of why there is such a thing as
a
community in the first place
and that I
think is one of the things that
I felt
very strongly throughout my
life that
that there really are wonderful
things
that we've inherited all
Americans
however whatever position in
society
they are are still heirs to
something
rather remarkable you know a
rule of law
which has goes on perpetuating
itself
from generation to generation
if they if
only people knew how rare that
was they
would see that they've got a
fight to
preserve it you know
and the same with so many other
institutions that we yeah no I
couldn't
agree with you more I think one
of the
most one of the most
interesting things
and Gwen we were talking about
Gwyn
earlier the grammarian one of
the things
that Gwyn points out and it
really
struck me in his little book on
grammar
that made quite a splash I
think in the
UK one of the things that he
points out
is that language our English
language
has not changed a great deal I
mean the
conservation of the language
this site
could be because there's a lot
of people
that the the descri