BBC Interview: 5 Live

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Event Name: BBC Interview: 5 Live
Transcription Date:Transcription Modified Date: 4/9/2019
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statement on Iraq detectives

investigating the murder of 19-year old

Marsha MacDonald who died from three

massive blows to the head have confirmed

that they're investigating a similar

incident that took place in January a 17

year old girl suffered head injuries

after a suspected attack in the

Strawberry Hill area of southwest London

French media reports say a Spanish man

charged with killing the British

schoolgirl Caroline Dickinson seven

years ago has admitted the murder 13

year old Caroline was staying at a youth

hostel on a school trip in Brittany when

she was raped and killed by an intruder

she lay in bed and three students from

an agricultural College in Shropshire

have been killed in a road crash three

other men were badly injured in the

accident which happened near the

entrance to Harper Adams University

College near Newport last night thank

you his David Croft with all the sport a

flurry of runs as John Kerry mentioned

at the end of their innings from New

Zealand and their World Cup match

against the West Indies in Port

Elizabeth Simon Mann has all the details

they finished on 241 for 7 from their 50

overs that was a good effort from New

Zealand after being 147 per six in the

33rd they got there thanks to a sensible

innings from wicket keeper Brendon

McCullum who was 36 not out and scible

ignorance from andre adams who finished

35 not atany got those runs from 24

balls with two sixes and a four New

Zealand's struggled early on Stephen

Fleming 25 Vettori 13s tyrus 5 they were

66 for 3 then a good stand

ah Stalin can for them both went in

quick succession aster was caught behind

although don't hit it off Heinz and cans

went too long off also off hind to

finish with three four thirty five so

Weston is need two hundred and forty two

to win the very interesting see how it

works out of England's cricketers should

have been in Harare today playing their

opening World Cup match against involve

way and

Video 3

involved three days cool from Kingsbury

three to Vega morning good money to see

a thousand I heard about your work about

12 years ago from somebody who come from

the state and I've been praying

fervently since then that we have more

people like you now a hundred my

question to you is ever since the speech

on the axis of evil it's feeling more

and more like a crusade visibly

Christianity versus Islam do you

perceive this modern conflict in the

Middle East as a clash of civilizations

or is it a clash of religious belief I

would call it a crash of civilizations I

think it's absolutely the absence of

civilization that leads to to these type

of conflicts in terms of a crusade I

think that there's no doubt that there

there are certain elements in the u.s.

that have a crusader mentality and we

see this in in the fundamentalist

Christian branch and and and there are

people within the the administration

that definitely cater to do that to that

element I think that America by and

large is as a country and certainly the

government is not opposed to a

secularized Islam that is an Islam that

does really not impinge on the society

at large but I think when we talk about

in Islam for instance that prohibits

usery interest a lot of modern banking

schemes an Islam that also permits

people to defend their homelands and

things like this against aggression yeah

I think that there is definitely a

feeling in the government that they do

not want to see this type of a song

because it's antithetical to their

interests in the region

and I think at root for most of these

people I don't think they're they're

ideologically committed to the Christian

religion to to put it in those terms I

think it's much more simply about power

politics and a kind of Machiavellian

attempt at

having their hegemonic concerns in the

region fulfilled Blair and bush' both

said they to share a very similar

platform of Christianity you've spent a

bit of time at least with President Bush

do you believe that Christianity lies

somewhere within his kind of remit and


I think definitely he's got a Christian

some type of adherence to the Christian

religion no doubt it helped him through

his alcoholism but again I think that

the people around Bush by and large I

think our power politicians and and I

think that religion probably plays less

of a role in their minds than political

concern do you believe my good buddies

very wrong about that but that's that's

my gut feel okay

deeply that President Bush's at all

credible to a Muslim audience no I I

think that by and large that America has

lost all credibility in the Muslim world

I think that many many Muslims actually

look towards America certainly during

the 50s and 60s as being a force that

might help them get out of the yoke of

despotic regimes but America ended up

not only supporting but actively

supporting many of these regimes

certainly Saddam Hussein is a creation

by and large of of the United States and

I think that's where unfortunately the

hypocrisy is much more evident to to

most of the Muslims and I think it's

tragic in a sense because I think the

ideals that America was founded upon our

powerful ideals and and and they're

rooted also in in the Islamic tradition

as well the ideals of self-determination

and and the right for people to pursue

happiness and which of the bits say that

really don't fit where between American

culture and society now well I've never

coached yeah I think that probably some

of the most distasteful aspects

of of Western culture generally are not

just distasteful to Muslims I think many

just good people in in the West find the

the pornographic element the the the

immorality that has kind of permeated

our culture I mean I've got children I

don't like my children to look at

billboards and and see and it's not that

I think that bodies are disgusting and I

don't but but I think that there's

there's a time and a place for

everything and I certainly don't feel

that that type of sexuality should be

publicly displayed those aspects and I

think that the by and large Muslims

share those with a lot of people in the

West does tiny bear have a credibility

to a Muslim audience I think that that

Blair I mean Michael Moore said that you

know when you see Tony Blair and George

Bush standing side by side he said you

see one intelligent man and you wonder

what he's doing with the other one I

mean that might be a little unfair but I

do think that it's very sad that labor

has completely capitulated and I did

remark that it troubles me that the

great the the great line of Great

Britain has become a feather in the tail

of the American Eagle I mean I think

that that Great Britain should play an

extraordinary role of being a moral

voice in the West and I think that that

Great Britain can be that voice that

reminds America that not only is the

path that it's pursuing a dangerous one

but it's the one that Great Britain

herself has been down and that's the

path of empire and ultimately it leads

to failure and and I think that the the

British people are acutely aware of that

because they saw it in their own history

and joins us from Glasgow morning in

hello yes good wine I'd like to know how

I define empire because at the height of

the Ottoman Empire in the 20th century I

don't know if your listeners are aware

of this or not the worst atrocities

committed in the history of mankind

prior to the first and second world wars

was committed by the turkey Muslims

against the Armenians you know 1 million

to one and a half million Christians

killed because they were not of the

faith of the Muslim that's

I just also please may I speak because

we do have freedom of speech in this

country in certain Islamic countries I

would not be able to express myself as I

am just now and there with you if I was

in certain Islamic countries hmm

could I just also say to you that um it

seems extraordinary that we have a

situation just now where everything

seems to be down to the the the satanic

west where in fact if you consider the

history of the Islamic faith you do seem

to be based you-you-you tenets on heat

another moderation that you have a

problem I think with the moderate

Muslims should be challenging the

authority of the extremists the mullahs

in the Imams if you don't have that

situation then I'm afraid that the rest

of the world the rest of the major

religions of the world I'm going to

perceive the Islamic faith as based on

fear and injustice which particular

states and regimes are you talking about

well in Egypt for example you do have

what you would call a moderate Muslim

country where I believe 20% of the the

population in Egypt is not of the Muslim

faith but you have you have Islamic

extremists in that country where if they

were to take over the mainstream people

in Egypt is now they would reduce the

the Muslim the non-muslims to zero in

Saudi Arabia for example you only have

one religion permitted there which is

based on a hideous regime where all

sorts of atrocious the sentences are

passed on individuals because they dare

challenge the authority of that well

let's just let's just try to tackle that

shake hands would you admit and that

that does need to be more

forward-thinking a wider appreciation of

freedoms that the West have embraced in

some parts of the Muslim world

absolutely I mean I don't first address

the the idea that the the Ottomans that

this the worst atrocity ever in the

history of I mean that's blatantly false

it's well known the the Armenian tragedy

that did happen happened but by most

historians there there was a recognized

exaggeration of numbers because of anti

Russian propaganda at the time but a

rather anti Turkish propaganda at the

time based on Britain's interests there

but but the point about the the Ottomans

at that point was already a secularized

government in fact the Armenians were

well known to be one at one of the few

communities in in that region that had

reached very very high levels within the

Ottoman government itself ministerial

levels and things like that and I think

the Ottomans actually by and large with

their atrocities because like any

empires they did have their atrocities

but by and large they were known to be

one of the most tolerant civilizations

in the pre-modern world certainly right

in the modern world in the modern world

we've got a real serious problem in the

Muslim world there's no doubt and I

think that the suffering that goes on

again is is I mean I lived in the Muslim

world and I certainly many of the things

that I saw I think the the the the abuse

of women in in in many of the the

countries that has to do with just

ignorant I really feel that and and it

wasn't that long I mean we forget that

women didn't inherit in this country in

the 19th century I mean we kind of pride

ourselves on these leaps and bounds that

we've made in the last few decades but

the reality of it is I mean if we look

at our own history I mean the it took

quite a considerable amount of time to

achieve certain things that we've

achieved in the West and I think that in

the different surely is that they're

mean the suffragette movement in this

country was one where women were

prepared to lose their own lives in the

name of freedom whereas if you're a

woman living in Jordan or Saudi Arabia

the moment you are more likely to lose

your life at the hands of the state if

you try and pursue ultimate freedom than

at your own hands and that surely is

wrong and you can you know you can say I

can adjourn you have to look forward

exactly and I'm not going to what I'm

saying is that change

does take time I mean we forget the

revolutions that we've had we forget all

the blood that's been spilt in in in

Western civilization that we can speak

freely you know many of us would have

been plebeians in another age we

wouldn't even have the right to be

discussing government policy that was

the the right of the Lord's and and and

the aristocracy

well people fought and died in order for

us to have these and and people just

kind of forget that they think that we

we just it's always been like this is it

hasn't always been like this and I think

it's going to take a lot of time say for

other parts of the world to achieve

certain levels of liberty and freedom

and I would like to see it done without

the type of bloodshed that has occurred

and I think that it's it's very easy for

us to point our fingers at other

societies and civilizations I'm not

defending the Muslim world per se I I'm

I grew up in California I was raised by

a woman who was very active my mother

was very active in the civil rights III

grew up in a liberal progressive

tradition I'm not going to to defend

despotism I'm not going to defend the

the atrocious human rights records in in

many parts not just of the Muslim world

but around the world but I'm certainly

also very aware of how easy it is to

attack that world without really

understanding it at a much deeper level

I mean if you take a book by the

brilliant British historian David Franck

and a piece to end all peace I mean he

shows you that it was in fact Britain

and France that set up a type of

scenario in the Middle East would that

would ensure that the that the countries

in that area would remain in this type

of morass isn't the real danger in

taking all those lessons from history

that the place that we find ourselves in

at the moment which is slightly kind of

fists up between two massive cultures

will actually lead to both suffering

there will not be the time this is

progression thank you I mean I that is

exactly how I feel and I think that if

we don't listen to each other and it's

going to be very difficult but it's

going to take

real intelligence and and and reason and

and I think that's what human beings

unfortunately are not very adept at when

they're when they're just constantly in

the turmoil and agitation of crises

management it's been wonderful having

you here thank you very much indeed for

coming in so huge they can see you so

thank you for all the calls and I know

that we didn't manage to put very many

honor but we do appreciate the fact that

you're listening and wanting to get

involved here's Anna with the travel in

sterling the a 875 remains closed while

Stan accidents recovered between Balfron

and the a8 double one junction at kamek