Introduction Speeches removed till SHaykh Hamza Speaks:
Hamza Yusuf and that is the challenge we
still have to meet thank you thank you
rather hood sacks shake shake Robbie
what have you been taking the title
faith and the challenges of secularism
atheist like to invert things and I
could see them having a conference
secularism and the challenges of failure
yeah because this is part of the crises
that we're in is that we have and
Jonathan hate in his book righteous
right he articulates I think really well
this this problem that we have of what
we privilege as values like Liberty as
opposed to sanctity and and he actually
despite the fact that he's a liberal
makes an argument that religious people
have a much broader spectrum of moral
considerations than people on the other
side I I think there's a lot of challenges that secularism faces. But I think the greatest challenge is that religion faces is the stupidity of so many religious people and I think that secularism actually is a response to that stupidity, because there's so much inanity in religion and this is what they love. Religosity, which was done by Bill Maher, this film had a huge impact on people. But it didn't show people like Jonathan Sacks rabbi Sacks it showed people that would be better off just not speaking and and this is a problem because we're in a society that it honors freedom of speech and everybody's entitled to their opinion no matter how stupid it might be but one of the things that mass technology has done is its really given everybody a platform and so somebody who lives in a house with wheels and has cars on its front porch
without wheels can actually have a Quran
burning day and it ends up causing riots
in other parts of the world this is the
type of environment that we're in so
it's it's a very precarious situation I
think for all of us
and and I think faith for me the tragedy
is I just see these these great
religious traditions and I in all
honesty I mean my undergraduate was in
comparative religious studies but all of
the religious traditions Buddhism
Hinduism Catholicism and the Protestant
formations Judaism have extraordinary
truths in them that have nourished
countless people through the centuries
and one of the problems with religion is
that when when people study religion
they tend to study the history of
religion they actually don't study the
religion itself so very few most people
know about the Crusades and and they
know about the Inquisition but they
don't know about st. Thomas Aquinas or
the zoom or what he has to say
about the nature of the self or the
trials and tribulations of the self when
we think of Islam now people
unfortunately think of Isis they don't
think of Gaza Lee who had a huge
influence on st. Thomas
they don't think of arrow ease who had a
massive influence on your European
thought they don't think about these
giants when they think of Islam they
think of Isis and these and these
horrible iterations that have manifested
and so I think religion is an incredible
victim of a lot of really poorly
practiced religion and and I think the
secularists they just this is what they
latch on to and when they attack
religion and so for me I think if we
look at secular the secularization and
just to define terms I'm going to use
Harvey Cox has I think a good definition
which is the idea of removing religious
and metaphysical considerations in in
society so that religion and metaphysics
doesn't inform the society but another
definition is the disenchantment of
nature because religious traditions all
of our traditions see the human being is
a steward of the earth and and that
there's a moral responsibility as a
human being whereas in in in in a
disenchanted world nature becomes raw
materials and resources to be exploited
and the same happens to the human being
so you have a D sake realization of
politics so that the the the this and
this occurred obviously first in the
West but it's continued all over the
world this idea that political service
has nothing to do with moral or
spiritual responsibility and and then
finally the D consecration of values
this idea that that values become
relativized and that we don't values I
mean secular is from a Latin word which
which meant the here and now and so this
idea that
that the past doesn't have anything to
tell us to inform us and just to give
you one example in a book that I read
recently the Benedict option yeah I'm
glad you mentioned yeah which is a Rod
Dreher book it's a very interesting book
but one of the things he says I mean
he's very pessimistic about the
situation and he's basically arguing for
a kind of to create enclaves of sanity
where religious people can raise their
children I mean that maybe the Amish in
the end will you know have been the
wisest of us all but he says that the
two things that most threaten the church
today are sex and technology and and I
think the the the the sex aspect
obviously is the type of culture that's
been created in the West the hookup
culture it can't sustain family and and
we're seeing if some of you saw the
stats on marriages recently that have
just completely flipped in the last 15
years people don't want the problems of
just getting married and having to deal
with a spouse it's obviously harder for
the women than the men but dealing with
a spouse is part of marriage and people
don't want the emotional entanglements
of these things and then also they don't
want the sacrifice of raising children
so a lot of people just aren't having
children this is a major problem in
Europe and and increasingly in the
United States and Japan so I think
technology is is is also enabling this
this this detachment into a kind of
autistic world so a lot of young people
now are are growing up completely
detached from the world that they're in
I mean I see them at the University
almost every day with their phones in
walking with their their their iPhones
and these things and really in another
world and so one of the most fundamental
things about religion is it creates
community you need a minyan in in
Judaism you have to have at least 10
people to do certain prayers in as long
a need 12 people to Jamaa you know the
ecclesia in traditional Christianity
the the Songhai in buddhism the idea
community is at the essence of religion
and at the essence of community is
family and family then becomes an
extended it extends out to the community
so the breakdown of these things are
directly related to the breakdown of
religion and and this is what I think is
really being lost on a lot of people
what rabbi sacks said people don't
realize what we're going to lose with
the loss of religion family I do not
believe I don't believe that family can
be sustained without religion if you
look in this country in 1968 there was a
I think Humphrey did it about the the
crisis of the Negro family which Daniel
Patrick Moynihan morning 1665 so the
crises of the of the black family was
that twenty percent of the children were
being born out of wedlock that now is is
well past fifty percent seventy it
exactly and it's it's it's in the in the
white community you're looking it's well
past twenty percent and so in Britain
it's nearly fifty percent fifty percent
almost fifty percent of children in
Britain are born outside marriage now to
be fair some of this is common-law
marriage I mean there are people that
are in committed monogamous or committed
relationships and raising children
without having gone through the process
of marriage but a lot aren't and so the
breakdown of the family which is it's
the it's the building block of the
society I think so we're you know I
think we're we're dealing with a lot of
variables out there and and then finally
the last thing increasingly I think in
the United States what we're seeing is
is a French model of a governmental
attitude towards religion the United
States traditionally was not a lay
assist model in it secularism did not
mean that we exclude faith from the
public square and that's very clear in
the foundational writings that we have
and it was confirmed consistently by the
Supreme Court throughout the 19th
century and others and but whereas now
you're seeing that it's the Steven
Carter
model you know the culture of disbelief
you can tinker with God but in your
garage and well unto you if you bring
him him out into the public space and so
I think that to me is deeply troubling
and I think institutionally it was
traditionally a lot of institutions now
are being threatened especially
religious colleges churches I mean the
birth control and the Hobby Lobby
situation these are all affecting all of
us so we've talked a great deal about
the the terrible challenges that are
being thrown up by secularism and
secularization before we turn to our
audience I want to ask each of you to
talk about possible responses you
mentioned Rod Dreher written a book that
a lot of people are talking about that
is one recipe for responding to an
aggressive secularism namely doubling
down and trying to build structures that
will help form our faith communities to
become more strong and resilient but I
want to ask the question this way what
do you think in this trial log your
respective faith communities can learn
from each other
rod rear and his book actually talks
very movingly about a visit that
Archbishop Charles Chaput a Catholic
Archbishop of Philadelphia made to
yeshiva University in 2012 rabbi sacks
and Archbishop chef who talks very
movingly about how struck he was by the
intensity and the passion and the love
of the students that you see before the
Torah he was struck by the the way the
students studied in pairs and he thought
this is something that Christians can
learn from from from Jews are there
other instances of that sort where
Robbie you you've you've learned
something from hamza about how we can
respond to these challenges or how can
muslims perhaps learn from christians
and jews hamza and in terms of
responding to the challenges of
secularism start with you
well I mean the first thing that any
faith tradition that's attentive can
learn from Judaism and from the history
of the Jewish people is survival of all
the ancient peoples who has survived the
Jews now I'm a critic of the Benedict
option I have great respect for God rare
I have great respect for Roger I
represent the other point of view which
I'll talk about in a moment but but I
have to concede to rod if we look at
Jewish experience throughout history and
this would be an oversimplification that
Jonathan can correct a lot of the effort
was separation separating from the
corrupted nations refusing to capitulate
to infanticide to sexual immorality
temple prostitution always with some
members of the community sometimes large
members of the community falling into it
but always with the core and the remnant
sticking and and and separating from it
so if I were if I were doing a brief for
Rods Benedict option I would point to
those aspects to Jewish separation from
corrupt surrounding cultures and nations
as as as evidence for that but I think
that the tenacity of faith the
determination to hand on faith to to the
children the refusal to accommodate and
capitulate to what from the point of
view of the faith can only be judged to
be wrong despite the carrots and the
sticks that are used to compel
capitulation the the there's always the
temptation no matter what your faith is
in the face of
a hegemonic power opposed to that face
the temptation is always to give in in
order to get ahead and sometimes if you
don't give in or sometimes whether or
not you're prepared to give in there's
there's compulsion but historically the
Jewish people have as a people not
individuals may go their ways but as a
people has refused either to accept what
is contrary the faith in order to get
ahead or to yield to the the
intimidation and bullying of the
hegemonic power well I mean I think I
wrote an article some time ago for the
Christian Science Monitor what what
Muslims could learn from Catholics which
talked about just the Irish Catholic
experience of coming here the Irish
Catholics were looked down upon my own
family changed their name from Oh Han
sook - Hanson and and I I don't think
people realize how difficult it was for
that assimilation to take place in
Catholicism it took a long time for
Catholics ruling to be accepted but what
they did was they created extraordinary
educational institutions that became the
envy of even the Protestant communities
and and so I think for me it was the the
grit that the Irish Catholics showed
because a lot of those institutions were
built with small donations from Irish
workers and I know my own family
supported st. Joseph's College in
Philadelphia so I think that's something
that Muslims could definitely learn from
the Catholic experience and you're
putting this into action with Lacuna
column right and and Zaytuna College is
I mean we have we have a Catholic Dean
we have a priesthood and we we have we
have a priest teaching rhetoric and
English literature and when we have
Vatican visitation a couple weeks ago
and and when the bishop came in to the
classroom and it was a surprise I didn't
know the priest was teaching he saw the
priests and all these Muslims and he's
just his jaw dropped in so the priest
comes runs and kneels down because he
had the bishops
and ask for a blessing in front of the
Muslim class and and and then he looked
down he said it would be a Franciscan
[Laughter]
but I think that that definitely did the
aspect of education and also the
determination that the Catholics have
have held I mean there's a lot of
capitulation going on and caving in and
a lot of different places but by and
large the Catholics have held to a
tradition that is not in any way
consonant with the zeitgeist and and
that that takes immense moral courage to
to be true to your principles I'm seeing
in our Muslim community a lot of young
people completely capitulating to basic
principles that we have and it's for me
it's very tragic because it once you
lose that you lose your faith I just I
don't see how you can hold on to your
faith in terms of the Jewish experience
I think the the incredible things that
Muslims can learn from the Jewish
community the number one the thing is is
about the halacha
law and how the Jewish community has
been able to grapple with a lot of
pre-modern concepts in the modern world
and I think what my teacher sheikh
abdullah bin bae is trying to do is very
similar to what a lot of the rabbi's did
much earlier with jewish law so there
there's a lot that can be learned
because the halahala
and the sharia have a lot of
similarities they do make that we do
hustle and and many other things in fact
there was a I saw a somebody go around
Israel asking Jews in Israel what what
religion is closer to Judaism Islam or
Christianity and most of the Jews
actually said Islam and historically I
think that's how a lot of the Jewish
rabbis felt largely because of the
monotheism but also because the Jewish
community saw Islam as having a lot of
the an extension in in essence of the
Mosaic law so and also I think holding
on to your faith despite incredible and
a lot of Jewish people have lost their
faith undeniably along with Christians
and other people because of what
happened
in the two world wars in Europe but the
fact that you can have somebody who who
probably has relatives that were in in
the Holocaust and and saw what happened
collectively to a group of people and
maintained your faith in spite of that
and I think had it up there for the book
of Job I think it would be a lot more
difficult for Jewish people to hold on
to their faith in spite of all these