really sees itself as a new and
universal for all of humanity but
despite that muslims must respect other
religions and the right to reject
because the word in in in islam for
calling others to Islam is Dawa which in
Arabic means an invitation an invitation
is only valid if you can reject it okay
I'll stop you right there we'll take a
short break and we'll be right back stay
tuned to let's talk
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welcome back to let's talk I'm sure on
with me I shake hands are yourself he's
co-founder of Zaytuna College we're
talking about religion its place in the
contemporary world it seems to me like
some of the discussions we had here
about religion and especially extremist
forms of violent extremism that
sometimes is referred to is also
intertwined with nationalism right and
identity policies I do want to ask you
though I mean and there's a bit of Chris
is not there in the world about you and
that has to do with what seems to be a
shift in your position that you have
been in the past especially in that kind
of post 9/11 scenario very critical of
autocratic governments in the Muslim
world
you yourself referred to the 911
hijacking as an act of mass murder and
so on and so forth but in recent times
you seem to become much more comfortable
with particular regimes the United Arab
Emirates in particular there's a there's
a case reference to Egypt in this turkey
how do you take this criticism that
you've now become much more willing to
give autocratic governments especially
non democratic governments in the Middle
East for instance some leeway you've
actually defended them well I mean I
first of all I think governments are a
blessing from God I anarchy is a
horrible thing and I think there when we
see failed States like we see what's
happening in Syria Iraq Yemen and and
many other places Libya is a tragedy
government to me is a blessing but it's
also a tribulation and and the best of
governments are governments that tend to
respect their citizens or subjects
depending on what type of government is
and the worst are those that disregard
the sensibilities of their own
population I'm not happy with tyranny
I'm not happy with abuse of populations
but I also understand the complexities
of the world the world is a very complex
place now one
could argue that the best position is to
remove oneself completely from the
apparatus states but that also then you
have the problem of who's going to
actually give these people advice about
how to deal with things if I had an
opportunity now to engage the Chinese
government I would because I feel like
they need advice about handling the
problem with the wiggers and things like
that
you wouldn't say well we need to
actually isolate China because of its
alleged poor you know human rights
record well John I mean China is a very
complicated place it's a very difficult
place they're dealing with
unfortunately the Muslims traditionally
were actually a community that had in in
some ways they were exempt from a lot of
the the problems in China like the
one-child policy they were allowed to
but because there's been terrorism and
things like that
emerging they've overreacted and it's
horrible what's what's happened and you
know I would oppose it but I I think
governments need advice and this idea
well I think like I said the Gulf states
for instance like the UAE the vast
majority of the population is fine with
the way the government is running things
and and I know that for a fact of just
interacting with the people there are
dissidents undeniably and and in all
these states maybe there's some
heavy-handedness about dealing with
dissidents but they also see what's
happening around them in other words the
collapse of these states so like I said
it's very easy for us to be armchair
critics I tend to I I believe in in in
building i I think criticism is
important but it's also can be very
dangerous when there's no constructive
criticism it's just simply tearing down
everything that we have to work I mean
we I could criticize the Malay
government I could criticize the
American government but in the end of
the day these are these are what we have
we have to work with them we have to
work towards making a better situation
for people I mean we I want to see the
the best situation for people I'm
against violence I've always been
against violence nobody can
anywhere where I've promoted violence
I'd like I said I do not like tyranny I
don't like I don't want anybody would
you be something I actually like
constitutional monarchy as a form of
government I prefer this is interesting
because I've always said that I've never
been residual like I would have probably
been a loyalist in the American
Revolution although I do have answers
within the American River to Britain
yeah
probably even though I'm Irish mostly so
yeah but again like I look at the Irish
situation you know the Irish were tribes
that were fighting each other what the
British did to the Irish is horrible 700
years of terror but in the end of the
day the Irish now are using Roberts
rules they have a parliament they're you
know I mean these say you have to look
at the positive okay also you know be a
monarchist it's fine I mean it's it's
not no I just I like I like stability
and I like the idea of having tradition
I like the fact that that you have a
family that represents something that
transcends time okay but what about this
right so if you go back to Islamic
history and the caliphates right is this
where it comes from is your is your
sense of the stability the importance of
monarchy in the continuity geological is
it about the cow the calyx is it about
that early tradition in Islam of the I
know I don't think the Provos always
have established a form of government I
think he established a government but I
don't think he established a fixed form
of government
I think that's left for the people
themselves to decide how they want to be
ruled or you enter into you're born into
a covenant so for instance if you're
born into a monarchy there's a type of
covenant and it's these are these are
offenses that history tell us it's often
betrayed I mean look at the Ottoman
Empire and what your Ottomans were
amazing generally I mean they they're
probably one of the most extraordinary
pre-modern governments in human history
I mean I I they have some they have axes
they had some very strange practices and
they had some terrible thing there's no
government the United States we have
extrajudicial killing you know the
United States assassinates people we
drone
exactly you know we have we every
government has dark downside that it's
just not possible in fact I'm done magic
even Marwan said that government is a
tree that must be watered with blood I
mean this this is something that and
that's why I wouldn't want to be in
power I wouldn't want to have to make
those decisions but these are very
complicated human beings are difficult
we're complicated we're not easy as a
species you know and and and so I think
in a place like Malaysia people should
thank God for the government that
doesn't mean that there aren't things
that need to be rectified that need to
be redressed and and again from the
Platonic perspective there there is a
view that you get what you deserve in
the United States if we look at the
United States we've become a consumer
culture that's very superficial
we don't have an intellectual tradition
per se anymore like the I'm talking
about the majority of people so in many
ways Trump reflects a culture he
reflects a type of attitude I mean look
at lifestyles of the rich and famous
look at American Idol look at look at
our popular culture and and what it says
about us as a people and that's not to
deny that we have amazing thing we I
mean we we give the world the the Center
for Disease Control if there's an
outbreak anywhere we're the first people
to work on it and try to provide cures
for these problems so much good comes
from America but also much harm as well
I mean this this is the world that we
live in it actually is and unfortunately
the world and what you know comes great
television is a superficial medium so
this is what Sheikh Hamza Yusuf he's a
American Islamic scholar and co-founder
of these.i tuna College this has been
let's talk
I'm sure I could an only natural
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you