Hi, I'm Lisa Fletcher, welcome to the streams online pre show today. We're extending both our pre and post-show because we have so much to discuss with two very special guests: Islamic scholars Hamza Yusuf and Zaid Shakir. Welcome to the pre-show everyone.
Tthank you so much for being here
Alright thank you for having me
First start with talking a little bit about "United for change" tell us what that's all about.
"United for change" was an initiative of Imam Zaid to try to get an umbrella organization get a lot of people together on different areas of focus. So in this one it's about poverty he's done other things and I participated as a guest really. Imam zaid you want to jump in on this?
yes United for change was really conceived to bring a...Shaykh Hamza mentioned many different scholars representing various fields of Islamic work in this country who might not ordinarily cooperate with each other to come together to address issues that are larger than any the resources or the scope or returnees of any individual group. So we've done four of these. This is the fourth one the first one dealt with the issue of malaria and Africa and we were able to raise over four hundred thousand dollars for the assisting anti-malarial work in Africa the second one dealt with the family and focuses on issues that aren't usually dealt with, such as domestic violence, Some of the problems that Muslim teenagers are facing and other issues that sometimes fly under the radar.
The third one was last year in Washington DC we dealt with the issue of education in that context we focused on the mission and the unique effort of zaytuna College and this year we're dealing with the issue of poverty, particularly poverty as it affects our inner-city communities and what some of the Muslim communities in the inner city particularly messy, Dallas & New Haven Connecticut are doing to address that issue
Host: So how was this initiative different from your work that you had started doing with Islamic Relief on malaria.
Zaid Shakir: I think that work was focused on a single organization that's out there in the field what we were trying to do was, bringing the resources of the Muslim community to bear on that problem. So if Islamic Relief was really on the front line we were trying to provide a stronger network of support behind the scenes to Marshall particularly the financial resources of the Muslim community to help address the issue shaykh hamza
I want to shift gears there a little bit and talk about Occupy Wall Street it's something that you've spoken out a lot about what do you think some of the issues were in terms of how that movement went wrong
Zaid/Hamza: Well, I think first of all the language of the movement was problematic for me because the whole concept of occupying anything is problematic for me and I think what it is, is it's engaging the quote-unquote enemy. I mean here it's in a civil sense but exactly an invasive language and oppressive language I mean. I think for me it's really more let's abandon wall of Wall Street you know let's look at different models. I think that for me it's really about checking out of this system as much as we're possible and divesting so I'm much more interested in educating people about how they can divest from the system for instance I personally you know I I don't fly certain airlines because they get f's in terms of their overall their social responsibility their commitment. you can get the "Better world buying guide" and actually begin to buy ethically certified products things like that, so I think people have to really stop empowering them by giving them your support I mean and that's a consciousness raising awareness that I'm much more interested in I'm much more interested in looking at strategically how we can get out of this mess that we're in because trying to occupy the mess is not going to do it for me that's any other thing I just would say also is that the one percent the United States were five percent the rest of the world's 95% so everybody in America is engaged in some sense in helping support oppression because for instance we buy chocolate in this country. most of the chocolate is is harvested by slave labor the cocoa and that's been well documented by CNN and many other things, so I don't need chocolate unless it's fair trade certified something like that, and these are the ethical commitments of the trials and tribulations of trying to live an ethical life in a very unethical world and that's something I want to talk more about in the show this idea of sneaking up your values and with the way you live your life every day.
Imam Zaid : I would agree to Shaykh Hamza in terms of the names and things but I think it's important for us to focus on the fact that some of the issues that the Occupy movement were raising our legitimate issues addressing income distribution and the growing gap between those who possess and those who are dispossessed some of the structural issues that need to be addressed and then the more recent effort to be in to link some of those concerns of Occupy Wall Street with Main Street and to address the foreclosure issue and others who those are valid concerns but i would agree agree with shaykh hamza you know
Host: On that note that we're gonna put it on pause guys because the pre-show is over but we're about to start this dream in 10 seconds
Host: Hi I'm Lisa Fletcher and you're in the stream today poverty politics and conflict we put it all on a table with renowned Muslim American scholars Hamza Yusuf and zaid Shakir, following protests against an anti-islam video many have focused on negative depictions of Islam. Here at the streamwe've tried to broaden that global conversation this week by bringing you other perspectives and today we're continuing on that path with two prominent Muslim scholars Shaykh Hamza Yusuf is known as one of the world's most influential muslims in fact he's been called a theological rock star like the Elvis of Western Muslims. Imam zaid shakir served as a chaplain at Yale University and he's co-founder along with shaykh hamza of zaytuna college which will soon be the first accredited muslim college in the US.
They're here to help us examine some tough issues facing the world today and we want to start by looking at poverty how does it take root even in wealthy countries like the United States is government failing or our individuals overly focused on consumerism of course a new che hossain is here grabbing all your live feedback and members of our community are also with us on Google+ so let's jump right in shaykh hamza you and imam zaid are doing this initiative focusing on poverty why right now?
Humza: Well I mean we're in a globally we're in a major crises I think in the United States we're seeing economic conditions that haven't been around for a very long time poverty is always presen. Like Jesus said, it's always with us but right now in particular a lot of people are suffering I know for instance the food banks are in crises and a lot of the inner cities and places where there just so many people are needing help right now and so it's it's it's an important issue for me personally though I think a lot of the the what I see is so much not as against poverty but elevating and dignifying poverty.
I've lived in many countries, I've lived in one of the poorest countries in the world in West Africa and and the people there are materially impoverished but they're actually spiritually and and in terms of their community they're actually very rich and so I think even our wealthy people in this country are often very impoverished in terms of their community their their lives people are very stressed out and you can see it on the road you can see it just look at the faces of the people out there they don't look happy you know. We're called prozac nation so I think poverty limiting poverty to an income distribution problem for me it's a much broader issue. I would consider intellectual and spiritual impoverishment one of the major ones not to mention food because poor people in a lot of countries eat much better than the wealthy people in the united states. They eat healthier food, better food I mean, the average Indian his Daal is much more healthy than all this fast food that's causing all these health problems here in the United States. That's where that's now spreading around the globe
Host: Right go ahead. I hope to pick up on the theme of wealth that you just mentioned I'm going to go to our online community here for a second I have a tweet from Maggie Carter. She says a lot of Muslims don't really want to have to educate people about themselves or Islam but must work with community to counter disinformation.
I also have a tweet here from Muslim IQ, he says the fact that the GOP has officially adopted an anti-islam platform that is horrifying as much as it is stupefying
I want to also quickly go over to our google hangout Logan you have a question about it for us about redistributing wealth and since it's election season there's been a lot of discussion in America about wealth redistribution in the safety net of welfare especially we've been seeing this brand of conservatism that is hyper individualism and hyper capitalism so I'm just curious what shaykh hamza and imam Zaid, how you'd have to say about it.
Humza/Zaid: About redistributing wealth to those who are wealthy to those who are poor and it is actually being carried out in Muslim communities or in muslim-majority countries among the yah I would first of all say that the Quran is very clear on this issue in the sense that is trying to strike a balance between private ownership and respecting private ownership and personal initiative and honoring that and on the other hand trying to prevent extreme differentials in terms of income distribution that renders some people impoverished and there a basic standard of dignified living being met even if those people might be considered poor so it is very clear in the Quran that <> that the wealth should not just circulate amongst the wealthy and a society the wealthy have a right to their wealth but if there are people in need and those people have been structurally prevented from earning a decent living then it's a responsibility of the entire society to address that issue and I think in that regards there has to be a a consciousness a public moral consciousness that facilitates bringing those resources to bear and the Islam emphasizes cultivating that consciousness so if the questioner mentioned and mentions this are in a sense rabbit individualism that builds on the philosophy of the likes of iron rent the Koran is saying we want to create a consciousness of public moral consciousness that endorses selflessness and and honey will you clear une you see rune I'll enthusiam well oh canopy mahesana they give preference to others even though themselves they themselves have dire needs so we need to cultivate a public moral consciousness that is amenable to sharing our wealth and also amenable to respecting the rights of those who have earned the wealth so that we can have a more balanced view and a more balanced Society. That's what Islam is aiming for a balance between extremes of extreme selfishness that would leave the poor even when they're structurally render poor in other words there's no fault of their own that.
For example, the farmer can no longer farm because organic seeds have been rendered extinct due to cross pollination with GMOs and they can only buy the seeds now from a corporation and they don't have any money because they're locked out of the cash economy well not yet another aspect of this. We were just teaching yesterday we were discussing at zaytuna College in the ethics class book five of Aristotle, where he talks about distributed distributive justice so this was a problem that the ancient Greeks were dealing with it's not something that goes away. But one of the things that he points out in there is magnificence you know the idea of actually people giving back to society I mean that was an ideal in their society that that wealthy people and the philanthropists in this culture traditionally that's what they did a lot of America was built in fact there's a program on I think on the history channel now about the men who built america about vanderbilt and rockefeller and all these different you know philanthropist and you have people like bill gates that are obviously trying to follow in those footsteps
But this situation where you have like, Imam Zaid set you have a structural situation that does not really allow for a certain segment of the population to get out of the poverty that they're in so you have failed schools in the inner cities I mean these are issues that if they're not addressed you destabilize the entire project and so the wealthy people end up like in third world countries where they have to live in sheltered environments with armed protection and increasingly we're seeing this in the United States as people move into these it's becoming like a third-world country in that way where people begin to move into gated communities where you get private corporate police and and it's unacceptable a civil society I mean America was a very different culture 30 years
You know, I'm old enough to remember how I wanted to get at because you know imam zaid I don't think anything that he's suggesting would be rejected by most faith-based communities however do you think that America has lost its its faith well I think America used to reflect this a lot more. five, yeah absolutely i mean faith was a much more fundamental component i mean if you look just in modern you know housing now than they built they don't factor in churches anymore or you know this isn't factored into the community anymore so I mean we're definitely seeing America still has a lot of faith-based people undeniably but you're seeing that the faith community no longer has the type of impact that they had in the past. I mean the Catholic Church was one of the major benefactors in the United States so a lot of this has been either privatized or moved into government so the whole entitlement project you know this idea that government has to do everything for the people i mean in some ways it's actually had a profound impact on communities that used to do these things.
Let me give you one example. When I was a kid we had a house burnt down in in in the neighborhood they went and collected buckets and everybody pitched in to rebuild this person's house that was fire insurance in the United States not that long ago so you know a lot of people you know we forget that insurance was actually just the community if somebody was in hard times other people would pitch in and Frank Capra made a career in Hollywood making films about that aspect of America yeah I think though yeah I think in the past though it was the case that not only the the wealthier philanthropist who you know how they gained their money might have been questioned and challenged by some answer in terms of the immorality of their economic activity but the ordinary person the middle class upper middle class taxpayers gladly paid ninety percent of their excess wealth and saw it as an investment in the future the future and that that's what built the public highway systems that's what sent a man to the moon that's what built the great public universities of this country and I think it's nothing beyond oneself yeah exactly and it's not ironic that as we move away in a sense as a society at least from a richness of faith regardless of our respective faith communities and we've been beginning to glorify atheism atheistic ideologies that we see the emergence of this individual selfishness even though there are a lot of people who don't profess a faithful a very municipal munificent generous but in general though we see a movement away from a spirit of selflessness self-sacrifice doing something for the greater glory of God in terms of public good and a movement towards more rampant and sometimes rabbit individualism
HOST: I want to bring in our online community here for a second. I have a tweet from Michael a droid he says why is it that Western Islamic followers are more willing to allow the existence of opinion or behavior not necessarily agreed with.
I have another tweet here from Betsy d she says agree it's always struck me as bizarre then entire economic system is based on acquiring stuff
I want to quickly head over to our google hangout, we have Sameer he has a question to us about poverty Sameer can you hear us?
Caller: yeah my question is that Muslims are so poor and so backward in many countries for example in a country like India they even lack basic needs like education and the housing and yet he see so many Muslims collect money for building new mosque every Friday I go outside the mosque i see them collect more money for building new mosque I mean there's no harm in building laws but at least use ten percent of that money for education or hospitals it will change so many lives couldn't agree with you more
Imams: yeah i mean that's you know it's no brainer yeah no comment you know
I mean yeah good point I think though the implication in that question one of the assumptions is that somehow Muslims in this country who are trying to build their mosques and schools and other projects and other infrastructure problems our projects rather are are not doing enough to assist Muslims in other countries. Whereas there are Muslim countries that have billions of dollars in excess and I think where that money is going how that money is being used Muslims might collect a hundred thousand dollars to build a masjid in Peoria, Illinois, where as a particular Muslim country might be spending 300 million dollars to build a skyscraper that's not even going to be fully occupied so I think that question might be a little bit misdirected
Well Samir was coming to us from India I think you're taking about that's how I understood I thought I thought he was talking about the Muslim lands and I and I agree with him i think the the lack of focus on education on especially the education of the muslim community but you know importantly also is the neglect of religious education which has caused a lot of the the climate that we're in because we don't have really seriously trained Muslim intellectuals anymore that are conversant with their tradition as as well as being able to grapple with the the issues that we're dealing with now and so we've got a lot of village preachers and and people that could not get into other types of schools and so they ended up going to religious schools is very common phenomenon and so unfortunately you get a lot of demagoguery and you get a lot of shallow thinking provincialism and it causes an immense amount of problems so I'm very committed to religious education for that reason but that's not to neglect other components of Education what are your concerns right now in terms of globally it seems that this American liberal model of democracy is being blueprinted around the world
Well I think one of the things about in the West that we have an exceptional lyst approach to ourselves before we were liberally democratic we were a very Christian civilization and we were attempting to thrust Christianity on the rest of the planet believing that that was our divined sanctioned right to do that so we sent missionaries all over the place and this is the you know this European colonialism it was quote-unquote to civilize all these savages and turn them into images of our
religious self well now that we're in a
post-christian era suddenly it's liberal
democracy but I still feel that the
impulses is the same impulse it's the
impulse of this kind of exceptionalism
this idea that somehow we're different
in the West we have Aristotle and
Socrates you know our foundations are
rational and the rest of the world the
Asians these inscrutable people over in
China and Indonesia they don't really
think the way we do and then these these
savage Muslims look at them they can't
even live civilly amongst each other
even their religion is a violent
barbaric religion so this is the type of
narrative that is constantly projected
and unfortunately a lot of Muslims and
other peoples fall into these kind of
ways of objecting to this imperialistic
tendency that's very Western imam zaid
the the narrative is certainly changing
in the Middle East much as a result of
the Arab Spring a lot of people
attribute that to discontent with
politics but I know you and shaykh hamza
think differently give us your
perspective on that
ah can you be more specific my
perspective on what the reasons that the
Arab Spring uprisings happened a lot of
people think it was political and I know
both of you have commented on it being
more economic I think definitely
economics are factor political there are
political motivations economic
motivations there are social and
cultural motivations but I think a lot
of it can be attributed to the general
frustration that prevails especially
amongst the younger population who
aren't seeing economic opportunities
that they've been believed to be waiting
for them once they finish their college
education at him well as easy was a
college graduate and he's selling
vegetables on the on the one hand I
think there's a fell so there's a
failure of politics and economics but
there's also a failure of religion in
the sense that one views ones our state
state of contentment and peace of mind
and one's ability to persevere and to
patiently endure economic and political
trials in the light of one's
relationship with Almighty God and find
a sense of self satisfaction a sense of
self-importance of one is has a solid
and meaningful and rich relationship
with Almighty God so I think when you
bring these factors together that
frustration builds up because it's not
mitigated by a rich relationship with
God and then you get into a fight and
flight situation where under the
property popular stimulus that stimulus
might be wise easiest car turned over
and being slapped by a police woman that
that stimulus might be this the likes of
this film that recently came out and you
get a fight-or-flight reaction and
sometimes where the ration takes a
rational faculties stop and then you
have an explosion if you will so I think
it's very important for us to see the
factors that are contributing to that
frustration on the one hand the factors
that are not there to help mitigate it
and construct and focus it and
constructive avenues and then
you what is constructive in the Arab
Spring there's a lot that's constructive
there's a lot that could be criticized
but i think it is i dropped you for a
second really quick and bring in our
online community i have a tweet here
from nawaz she says what just scholars
think of the cultural ethnic and
religious discrimination of Muslims in
the West why are muslims fair game i
also have a tweet here from shabad ville
he asks Islamophobia being number one we
are not politically organized at all and
barely some of us vote I also have a
video question from one of our viewers
I'd look what Sunday mom I'd like you to
answer this said I'm gonna go my name is
yes Mina and I'm currently a student at
the American University in Cairo I have
a question for both of the amounts
whether willingly or unwillingly you
both become part of a response to racist
depictions of Islam as inherently
violent that presents Islam is
inherently pacifist specifically is
compatible with Christian pacifism and
this is one of the main topics of a
common word which you both signed and so
my question is this do you worry that
the fact that the Muslim community in
the US has been forced to adopt such a
defensive posture results in the spread
of a distorted image of a stem that
downplays Islam's very real
prioritization of social action and
resistance you know I just in response
to that question I mean first of all
there the earlier question about the
depiction of the end of American Muslims
and Islam overall I mean America has
been at war in Muslim countries and so
this is a very common result of war you
tend to demonize your your enemies and
and there's people on the right that
have done that very effectively but on
the other hand it's also part of the
enfranchisement of a community in
America every community that's come here
with the exception of the anglo-saxon
community has had to duke it out
literally on the streets of America you
know the Gangs of New York the Italians
they used to be day goes and wops you
know the Jews were kikes and the you
know my own ancestors from Irish
background were mixed you know and yeah
it's my wife's Mexican so it's the
beaners and the spics I mean this was
part of the enfranchisement Muslims are
fair game right now and it's going to
take a while but they have to organize
and do the things that other communities
have done as part of a process in terms
of this the last questioner I mean first
of all I don't think either imam zaid
Nora have
presented Islam as a pacifist religion
and christianity is also not a pacifist
she's conflating peacefulness I yeah I
think exactly and I think resistance
takes on many different forms and part
of the wisdom of any religious teaching
is to use the most appropriate
resistance in the given circumstances
Christians did not passively fight
Hitler they they had preachers and
ministers and rabbis as well that we're
arguing for a just war agustin is part
of the Catholic Christian tradition and
explains just war so the Muslims do you
know we we do have a just war theory and
jihad is definitely part of Islam but on
the other hand I think the aspect of
Islam that has been sorely neglected is
the prophets Eliza nums basic and
fundamental responses to oppression and
persecution they were they were
responses when they were disempowered
his responses were to have patience he
was commanded to have patience and this
is something the Muslims view a lot of
these verses to be abrogated and I think
this is one of the fundamental problems
fahad a dino rossi the great theologian
said that to say these verses are
abrogated is to say that there's no
ethics in Islam I mean just you throw
out the ethics of our tradition so I
think a lot of Muslims very confused
about that and don't realize that that
one of the ways of resisting is actually
to shame the oppressor when you're
powerless and I think is important to a
question to understand that you're there
in Cairo there's a lot of social
activism going on here in the United
States the Muslims have been involved in
the Occupy movement and also critic
critiquing a but not shunning it in
terms of not being involved this United
for change program is dedicated to
addressing issues of poverty in the
inner cities of our of our country here
and specifically in New Haven
Connecticut masjid al islam that has a
food pantry that has a re-entry program
for prisoners muslim prisoners who are
coming out of the prison and need to be
in reintegrated into society that has
ads trying to create a youth
counseling program that has programs to
address issues that arise from poverty
so there's a lot that's happening but I
agree with shaykh hamza Einstein's
definition of stupidity was to continue
to do the same thing and accept
different responses we've had a response
to the Rushdie crisis that people flat
out into the streets they a yell and
scream and then the Danish cartoon
crisis people flood out onto the streets
and yell and scream and nothing changes
so I think we need to strategically plan
to look at these issues and develop you
know a meaningful solution yeah just a
dovetailing that you know Bernard Lewis
said that Westerners tend to forget that
the reason that they were so successful
is that they learn how to kill people
better than any other civilization prior
to Western civilization and so one of
the things about Western civilization is
they love violent responses because
those are the responses that they're
most effective at dealing with and
certainly the Israelis have learned very
well the Israelis were persecuted for
2,000 years in Western civilization but
they definitely internalized Yeah right
that you know the oppressors techniques
for squatching any type of resistance
absolutely and I think as Muslims in
this day and age there are 700 billion
people on earth they're 1.7 something
billion Muslims that's a clear minority
globally and here in the West that
minority is even smaller our strength is
our moral and ethical strength and we
negate that strength sometimes by trying
to build on the strengths we don't have
in that strategic strength we don't have
strategic strength right I'm gonna have
to stop you there a problem we are going
to put this conversation briefly on hold
shaykh hamza imam zaid in the post show
we're going to continue this
conversation in fact we're extending the
post show today at streams at
aljazeera.com now on monday us child
obesity rates they've tripled over the
last 30 years will this generation of
Americans be the first to live shorter
lives than their parents we're going to
talk about that on Monday until
MC online
welcome back the streams online
post-show joining us today shaykh hamza
yusuf and imam zaid shocker we want to
pick up our conversation not quite where
we left off I want to shift gears a
little bit for all of you who've been
with us this week you know one of the
things that we've been talking about is
the role of the media and how sometimes
the media either chooses not to cover
something or just completely misses it
che comes out how would you rate
coverage generally in terms of the
issues we've been talking about today by
the media and then specifically I want
you to talk about the area well you know
you're involved in media you understand
how it works but you know they have what
they call the media magnifying glass
that can really blow up and distort
certain images and and so people see
these violent looking Muslims with their
contorted faces on the front cover of
Newsweek and they suddenly think that
you know everybody in Cairo has a
violent orted face or wherever they are
Pakistan and if you actually go to these
places you find hey it's not all rioting
and it's not all people are just living
their lives so you know a few thousand
people end up pretty much determining
the views of millions of people about
millions of other people and so I think
the the media has really failed in
explaining and showing people the
reality on the ground and and so that
media distortion I think does a grave
disservice and all set it also sets up
the possibility of of really aggressive
and violent responses to a lot what's
happening you can see like what the
ambassador killed they didn't mention
that there were Libyans who died
defending the ambassador they were just
ordinary Libyans that were out there in
front you could see it on youtube videos
and things like that so Libyans gave
their lives to defend diplomatic
American diplomatic mission in Libya but
that wasn't pointed out so suddenly all
the Libyans are bad guys it makes it
much easier for aggressive strikes I
mean the drone strikes that are
happening all these things you know are
creating the Stanford just did a study
that was released a few days ago about
the drone strikes and the fact that
they're terrorizing civilians in
Pakistan so when you start seeing all
these angry Pakistanis you know nobody
talks about why they're angry it's
always just as this irrational
behavior it's about some movie that came
out no the movie is a trigger incident
it's it's it's just the trigger for a
much deeper problem and that problem has
to do with a lot of these misguided
misadventures that we're having overseas
bringing our online community real quick
totally picking up on the theme that you
just touched upon I have a tweet here
from zip 3 Salim he says has the
conflation of Islam and Arab culture
influence public opinion of Muslims in
the West if so how i also have Anika
she's waiting for us in our google
hangout and you could you have a
question about islamic culture yeah hi
thanks for having me thank I did have a
question that relates to a point that
we're talking about a little bit ago
having to do with her tests that are
going on is there something inherent in
Islam that makes people in Muslim
countries kind of go up in arms every
time there's something offensive like
you were talking about Imams am we lost
her we just lost hang out go ahead in
mumsy yeah no I think there there's
nothing inherent in Muslim societies
that makes muslims explode when these
various stimuli occur the as shaykh
hamza mentioned the overwhelming
majority of muslims are going about
their business trying to live dignified
lives sometimes on the extremely
difficult circumstances but there is
there are elements who are frustrated
and then these stimuli as i mentioned
earlier they serve as triggers that
bring that frustration to the surface so
i think is very important for us to look
at the underlying issues that build into
that frustration there's also something
inherently for me it is this inherit
problem with that I mean is there
something in the English psyche that
makes them riot after their football
team loses a match you know people do
stupid things you know and so I mean
seriously there's violence after
football games all the time in England
is that part of the English drinking
class culture do you know is that is
that what's going on so you know and
right this kind of goes to the bigger
disconnect though between how the west
view's must live exactly and I think
also that this idea of you know the the
idea that somehow Muslims are irrational
you know there's a strong underlying
prejudice that people have about Islamic
culture so you know I think we need to
really get out of talking about concrete
izing these these abstract things that
we talk about Muslims and is so you know
Islam in Indonesia is very different
Islamic turkey is very different
moroccan islam is very different i lived
in west africa I've been all over the
Muslim world the safest cities I've ever
been in heaven in the Muslim world I
never worried about some guy you know
walking up like I've felt in say New
York or Washington DC or somewhere I
never felt that ever wherever I went in
the Muslim world the thing Muslims are
afraid of is their governments and
that's what they're they're afraid or
American bombs dropping on their head or
drone strikes those are the things that
Muslims are afraid of they're not afraid
of their next-door neighbor you actually
have a great leader of our online
community from below I'm just going to
quickly read this Muslims in North
America are split along ethnicity
parties and home countries they are not
one block like jus so that goes to
exactly what you were saying is I agree
we're not monolithic you know and I
think also they're not the Jews aren't
one block either I think that's a gross
generalization generalization the Jewish
community has people from Eduardo Kohan
Noam Chomsky to you know po turrets and
these right-wing people you know the
Weekly Standard so you get a whole
spectrum in the Jewish community and you
know they're very liberal Jews their
Marxist Jews there are you know Zionist
Jews yeah i think is important to
introduce into this conversation that
the language of us and them this
language isn't going to advance the
human project at this point it's time to
redirect the language and think that
we're all in this together and and to
it's time for our society here in the
West it's time for us to do some
introspection it's indeed terrible that
400 4,000 or 5,000 American soldiers
light lost their lives in Iraq but it's
even more terrible that over
Iraqis have lost their lives due to the
same okay so that also also we've got
we've got ten suicides a day of American
soldier actually a it's 1818 yeah 18 a
day I mean we're using cyl intersections
here between the Islamic message in the
Christian message in the Jewish meshes
where does this all converge to to
actually change this is the human mess
it's a human message right I'll call
that bet yeah I know but the religious
look first of all you know you you've
lived long enough to know that most
people just want to be left alone you
know people don't like to have their
toes stepped on you know I once stepped
on somebody's toes imam zaid was with me
I almost got my head cut off you know
because you know people don't like to to
be a you know dist as they say in this
culture and and when you go around
denigrating people we have laws almost
every European nation has hate laws you
know first freedom speech like look look
up the the the Irish law of 1989 of hate
speech you know you have we signed on to
the United Nations we have a covenant of
political and civil rights article 20 of
that covenant says that you cannot
insight to hatred of of race nationality
or religion and a lot of what's
happening now is this is incitement to
hatred that there are people that really
have a lot invested in creating a lot of
hatred Stephen King wrote an interesting
novel called needful things you know
about this character that goes into a
town and opens a little store and
everybody wants to buy they go and they
find what exactly what they want but he
makes them do a little thing and by the
end of it the whole town is just
fighting each other and he packs up and
leaves you and that's the devil's role
whether you believe in Devils you know
these kind of spiritual beings or just
human demons it's a demonic role to
split people I have no reason to take
offense from you unless you give me
reason and and I think most people are
like that but you have people out there
that have you know just they have
agendas there are people that make money
off war there are people that make money
off weapons these are real people out
there and we should be forewarned about
them and do everything we can and we
should be presenting an alternative
Bailey agreeing with you I want to
quickly bring them in on society because
it just makes sense we have a tweet here
from war fail Oakland he says you both
keep bringing up patients us from the
third world have been dealing with
oppression occupation colonization for
200 years I also quickly want to go to
Google hangout listen we're not talking
about just gonna hang out really quickly
I'm so sorry hint oh sorry go ahead and
finish sticker I'm so sorry sir no
saying the word patients came up once or
twice in this conversation we're talking
about how we can begin to look at these
problems differently how can we
introduce new parameters to frame right
discussions are ongoing on responding
instead of reacting and I mean that's
that's a different approach and also
framing these issues in terms of human
problems so we can take remove the
ground from under the demagogues who
capitalize on these divisions rather
their religious ratio or otherwise that
we we're in this together and these
extremists on both sides and it's a part
of the problem you know they're
extremists in this country you know that
are articulating these visions you can
there's an interesting book that just
came out about the the Muslim tide and
what he argues in that book is a
guardian writer but what he argues in
there is that you know this guy brevik
in in in Finland when he went out went
berserk which is I think a Scandinavian
word when he went berserk and killed 69
people wounded 150 if you actually read
his screed which is a 1583 pages it's
all about Muslims taking over Europe
this thing that but yeah or calls
eurabia and and they've proven and
there's a TED talk that proved that
Muslim demographics are dropping
radically Iran has lower birth rates
than many European countries right now
so there's this whole myth of the
Muslims are coming the Muslims are
coming be scared be afraid that used to
be the Red Menace you know my mom grew
up with the Red Menace alright that used
to be the the you know the Communists
were coming why do we need these
boogeymen when we're dealing with real
problems we have global warming we're
being told that that the ice is
melting on the on the plant we've got
fish are disappearing from the oceans
they say that in 20 years at current
fishing rates we won't have tuna fish
you just mentioned obesity problems
we've got one out of four people in this
country is dying of cancer right one out
of three women are going to get cancer
in their lifetime why aren't we
addressing all of this human energy to
the real problems of human beings and
not all these artificially created
problems because many of these problems
are really artificially created I'm
actually going to quickly go to Google
hangout we have hens from Chicago you
have a question for us about young
Muslims him can you hear me yes I can
hear you so I take them to the Imams
thank you for your really lively
discussion I actually agree with you
that it's important for the Muslim
community to take back the narrative but
my question is more around some of the
work that American Muslims specifically
are already doing many young American
Muslims are already working in the inner
city I'm from Chicago so I know a lot of
the work that myself and my friends are
doing working in the city trying to
prevent violence I'm trying to get some
healthy food in the inner city and
addressing like the food desert
situation and I want to maybe get an
answer from both of you do you think
that this kind of work that a lot of
American Muslims are doing even though
it's not really documented in a in a
narrative sort of way do you think
that's a of the maturation of the Muslim
society here in the US and then what are
some of your thoughts in terms of
actually sharing these stories with our
neighbors thank you well we know like
Iman the inner city project Rama Rama
Mississippi and others that are doing
also you have violence prevention that's
going on former gang members that became
Muslim to do these things I think one of
the major errors of the immigrant
community was not to recognize the
importance of the African American
Muslim community in these inner cities
so a lot of the inner-city Muslims were
neglected so you have this a lot of
wealth from doctors and engineers and
they fail to recognize that actually
these people aren't immigrants there
they're a large Muslim community that
have been here for decades and in fact
you can trace it back over 100 years for
some of them
so you know these have been strategic
errors and and ethical errors in my
estimation but I think there are a lot
of positive things happening and
certainly Chicago is one of the main
hubs for a lot of some of the most
positive Muslim activity in the United
States so hats off and I think that that
this is a very important sign of
maturation that you do have the
wealthier suburban more immigrant based
communities working with inner-city
initiatives such as in Chicago amen and
other efforts we job recently had an
Oakland California humanitarian day to
provide school supplies and other goods
to inner-city children and most of those
supplies were purchased by members of
the suburban community so you see these
efforts of Muslims crossing lines that
have formerly kept them apart you see
those lines being transcended and you
see a car leasing of collective action
so I think it's a sign of maturity and
it speaks for itself we don't need
orchestrated media campaign to lend an
artificial sense of just we're doing
some let's grow organically build a
better mousetrap in the whole world
including the media will beat a path to
your door I actually want to quickly go
over to our google hangout we have a
sama you have a question to us about
zaytuna college salma I think we lost
Google and all of their you are great
can you hear me yea Somali come to you
to imam zaid and touche from the end
everybody else here I just had a quick
question about zaytuna college I know
it's not really on topic but um since
you guys are still on accredited
institution and no really educational
governing body really in the world kind
of recognizes the college of degrees
that it Awards how do you guys plan on
maintaining say to the College in terms
of financially from in its image without
the world to make sure that keeps
getting students and tap trees its
revenue to increase its like just it's
like extending well i mean first of all
we are we are our degree is recognized
by a few different universities that
will accept for instance we just signed
a
of understanding with jami al fatiha in
istanbul in turkey that the prime
minister's son was actually the host
that evening of the event and they will
take our students in their masters and
PhD programs when they graduate we also
have understanding its in its developing
but we have an understanding and our
student from a pilot program was
accepted into the Graduate theological
union which has a joint program with UC
Berkeley so we are students can go to
accredited graduate schools in terms of
the sustainability jake onson so sorry
we have about 30 seconds left in the
program for you to just more
philosophically than talking about the
nuts and bolts of the school wrap wrap
this up for us right wrap up this
discussion you know I think it's good
that you guys are facilitating
alternative voices I think al Jazeera
despite the fact that you know some of
the aspects of it are troubling in their
imitation of Western media I think it's
it's important to have alternative
voices and I certainly think that giving
opportunities for people like ourselves
we're often completely marginalized in
in other media outlets I mean I've done
pre-interviews where they just say okay
we don't want to talk to you you know so
I you know I want to thank you for
allowing this this opportunity support
our college please and imam zaid you can
close it out this is how we are out of
time with imam zaid and shake council
you so thank you so much for being with
us we do want to take one more minute
that i gave over to a new shay with a
few story leads were following
the University of California is awarding
close to 1 million dollars to students
and alumni for police violence during a
campus protest you may recall this image
of university police pepper spraying
peaceful demonstrators who are
protesting tuition hikes that's public
money paying the cost of brutality
tweets Parker Higgins our next leads
from reddit where forum users attempt to
embarrass a woman took an unexpected
turn a user posted this photo of a Sikh
woman with the caption I'm not sure what
to conclude from this but user ball
Preet Kaur who identified herself as a
girl from the picture responded I'm not
embarrassed or even humiliated by the
attention that this picture is getting
because it's Who I am yes I'm a baptized
seek woman with facial hair Sikhs do not
reject the body that has been given to
us her response prompted an apology from
the original poster he wrote after
apologizing and talking with ball Preet
I've seen how stupid this post was in
the first place it isn't funny at all
our last lead is a new website that
tracks homophobic language in real time
on twitter canadian university officials
created no homophobes calm as a social
mirror to show prevalence of casual
homophobia and society the site tracks
mentions of four different derogatory
phrases over time lastly a little red
line on Iran's nuclear program drawn by
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu is sparking online comments
speaking at the UN Netanyahu took a red
marker to a bomb diagram to show that he
thinks Iran is close to having a nuclear
capability netizens were quick to react
and Netanyahu's name skyrocketed to
20,000 mentions on twitter many of the
tweets were tongue-in-cheek sorry can't
tell you what the red line is av Meyer
tweets I can just tell you it's about an
inch and a half from the fuse on the
cartoon bomb others thought Netanyahu's
approach was effective Omri says every
single article is going to be about
Netanyahu drawing a red line on Iran
bomb message managed no you can find
links to all those leads on Twitter so
make sure to follow us at aj scream Lisa
alright that's all the time we have
thanks so much for joining us for this
extended version of this dream now on
monday us child obesity rates have
tripled over the last 30 years will this
generation of Americans be the first to
live shorter
lives than their parents tweet us your
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until Monday we'll see you online
you