assalamu alaikum and welcome to american
muslim hour I am Asuma cartoon today we
are speaking with Sheikh Hamza Yusuf
about two women in Islam well c'mon say
Yusuf let's start up a little bit about
the history of the Sharia and the role
of women in that in the seventh century
Arabia the Sharia or Islamic law was
established to protect women's rights in
the fields of freedom of belief property
lineage and honor for example if that
was its purpose why today is Islam seen
as oppressive to women I would I would
say first and foremost that the Sharia
is not something that came in the
seventh century the principles upon
which the Shetty is based came in the
seventh century but the the actual
sacred law of Islam is a human endeavor
it took about three hundred years to to
formulate and much of it is based on
humans attempt at understanding
revelation and so you have a always when
you're dealing with religious tradition
you are dealing with human attempts at
understanding God's intent through a
book or a revelation like the Christians
attempting to understand what God
intended for them through the Bible the
Muslims have the same historical
situation in attempting to understand
what God intended for them through the
Quran so the the actual laws that were
given to the prophets a lot if so then
in the seventh century are the there are
not that many and a lot of Muslims are
unaware of that the majority of the the
legal verses in the Quran of which there
are only about 500 out of six six
thousand over six thousand six hundred
verses in the Quran only about
500 deal with legal situations and most
of them deal with it in a way that
enables situational law in other words
that in different situations different
laws are applied so those aims and
purposes behind law so you have an
example of in in Islamic law if somebody
steals then their hand is is cut off now
people think that that sounds barbaric
but the reality of it is is that law
only applies with certain types of theft
it doesn't apply for theft that occurred
because things were left out it's
somebody breaking what we would call in
this culture of breaking and entering
and stealing from a protected area and
then it's only under certain situations
so all mah live in a hut Bob who's the
second caliph of Islam he suspended that
law during a drought and a famine period
because he said people were forced to
steal in order to feed their families
and therefore the aim and purpose of the
law was no longer being served in
applying the law so Islamic law is not
some kind of simpletons law of how to
run a society in the seventh century and
try to apply that in the 21st century
it's it's it's a very complex and
sophisticated legal system and it's
based on rigorous principles that were
laid down in the Quran and there are
certain legal issues that deal with
women with women's rights and for at the
time they were considered extremely
radical now in this quote/unquote
enlightened period of time the
Christians didn't give property rights
to their women until the 19th century
and and that's a historical fact in
England
women were constantly deprived of
property and wealth because even second
or third born sons because in the
English legal system in the 19th century
it was the firstborn who inherited all
the property of the and from this long
point of view that's unjust so in Islam
1,400 years ago women were given
inheritance laws and people say well
what about a woman who only inherits
half because the Quran says that a male
gets twice as much as a female that was
specifically in one instant there are
other inheritance instants where women
inherit and men male relatives don't or
women actually get more than the men but
in one specific instance which is when
there's a son and a daughter that that
would be a case where the son took twice
as much as as the the daughter and the
reason for that the wisdom behind it is
that a woman's wealth in Islam is
discretionary she her well she can use
it in whatever way she wants whereas a
man's wealth is there its those
responsibilities related to he has to
support his parents if they're old and
unable to support themselves he has to
support any female relatives that don't
have male support he has
responsibilities and that was always
understood by the scholars of Islam they
never saw it as the men are twice as
good as women or deserve twice as many
saw it as a burden that it was actually
a burden so I think part of the problem
is that because there's so much
ignorance not just amongst the Muslims
or certainly amongst Anonymous's but the
Muslims themselves are ignorant about
Islamic law where in history do you
suppose that the laws of the Sharia were
abrogated in order to convince Muslim
women that Islam was oppressive to them
and this abuse of Islam then encouraged
in favor of men I first I would say that
I don't think anywhere has to have the
laws of Islam been abrogated I would
rephrase that by saying that there there
are certainly very early
the laws of Islam are no longer being
applied in terms of women I don't think
women have ever been convinced that
Islam is repressive for them but I think
that they have in in many Muslim
countries the way that Islam has
expressed culturally itself is not
dissimilar to the way that Christianity
was expressed in the West for many
centuries
basically patriarchal with an idea of a
certain hierarchy and a position of
women in society and I think what's
difficult for people in the West to
realize is that this quote/unquote
women's liberation is a very recent
phenomenon and so when when they look at
the Muslim world they're looking at a
world that is not dissimilar to their
own world not that long ago that these
traditions are still maintained and
their human traditions whether Islam
agrees with that or not is is a matter
of of looking into what Islam says about
the specific situation
why are you suppose that that happens
well I think that by the nature of
relationships power is an element in any
human relationship if you work in a
corporation you are in a power
relationship with the people you work
with your boss has certain power over
you one of the things that drives people
crazy in corporations is watching people
kiss up to the boss why do they do that
why do they treat the boss with respect
and they don't treat their fellow
coworkers with that same respect because
there's a power relationship involved
here and I think that marriage it's very
easy to slip into power relationships
that are dysfunctional that are
pathological then they're not healthy
that you're human beings and and we do
have certain elements in our
personalities in our nature you're
dealing with biology males are a more
aggressive branch of the human family
and this is biological testosterone is a
hormone that if given to women women
become more aggressive and this is
something that has been confirmed
Western medicine so I think that that
males by their nature have aggressive
tendency if they're not tempered by good
upbringing by their mothers by
humanization and by an understanding of
the awesome tasks and responsibilities
of being in a human relationship whether
it be family in terms of a son towards
the parents the parents towards the
children or our husband towards the wife
how do you think women internalize that
how do you think that Muslim women will
manifest that in their roles today well
I think women all over not just I listen
women are women yes that happened to
have that adjective that they're that
they belong to a faith but first and
foremost they're human beings and so I
think that you'll find throughout the
planet you will find very similar
pathologies manifested by human beings
and certainly America is filled with
very dysfunctional relationships women
here are grossly abused the the number
one cause of murder amongst women in the
United States is from their husbands or
their boyfriends that I mean you see
this so I don't think you can say
Muslims have any monopoly on the
mistreatment of women I think globally
we have a problem the the problem in
Islam occurs when Muslims do not adhere
to the traditions of Islam to the
teachings of Islam and and and and vice
versa when they do it here you will see
in fact extraordinary harmony occur in
the human relationships because very
clear guidelines have been given in
terms of gender relationships so you're
saying that Muslims have themselves to
blame no way that first and foremost yes
absolutely I mean I think that what
happens because human beings it by
nature we have certain flaws in our in
our thinking and that's why logic was
traditionally taught as a
actual science in order to to redress
flaws one of the flaws of people is
cause and effect people will often
mistake because they see certain effects
they'll mistake the cause it's it's
difficult to determine real cause now
what will happen if you if you look at
the muslim world as a non-muslim when
they look at the muslim world and they
see the the dysfunctional nature of
muslim societies they assumed the cause
is islam there's for a muslim looking at
the muslim world and understanding his
religion he knows in fact the cause is
the abandonment of islam it's the fact
that these people are no longer
practicing islam and and so that's
that's the important thing is to
understand that you know the arabs have
a beautiful principle in the science of
ban which is one of the sciences of of
language they say a local auto shaitan
fell onto solidity but before we can
judge a thing we have to understand it
in all of its variables and we're filled
with a world of prejudice people are
constantly prejudging the average
american will make remarks about islam
they'll think that they're liberal
humanistic unbiased unprejudiced and yet
you ask them what they think of islam
that's a stupid religion it's a backward
religion it's oppressive to women have
you ever read the Quran no have you ever
read a tradition of the Prophet Muhammad
no so what are they basing that on
they're basing it on just observing with
some societies well if we observe
Christian societies have we seen turn
the other cheek applied in the West in
the last two thousand years those turn
the other cheek applied in your rock
right the the biblical foundation of the
Torah according to Rabbi Hillel who's
one of the greatest Jewish rabbis is
that the entire message of the Torah
which is the Jewish book is love God and
love thy neighbor as thyself
you see the Jews practicing that towards
their Palestinian neighbors does that
mean that the Torah is invalid as a book
because of what the Jews are doing does
that mean that the gospel is invalid as
a book because of what the Christians
are doing but unfortunately people apply
logic outside of themselves that they
like and then they refuse to apply it on
their own cells it's a little bit about
your analogy of mercy and justice you
discussed that you see mercy
characteristic to women and justice more
characteristic or symbolic of men can
you expand on that what I think if you
look in the world you will find that
this is one of the paradoxes of the
world of the dilemmas of the world is on
the one hand we honor virtue as a
religious virtue and on the other hand
we honor justice as a moral virtue if we
look at mercy as a religious virtue it's
very difficult for us to have justice
when we bring mercy into as some say
like Shakespeare that that that that
mercy must temper justice in other words
be just that have that mercy temper the
justice to prevent it from becoming harm
or becoming a harshness in the Christian
world mercy is at the root of the of the
Christian message
this idea of mercy I think in Islam the
the the woman is the embodiment of mercy
the word in Arabic for mercy LACMA is is
derived from the word for womb and so
the understanding of the Muslims have
always been that the source of Mercy in
the world is the womb it is the womb
it's the blood bonds that that that bond
us as a dynamic people that we're from
many Adam we're children of Adam and
therefore we should have compassion for
all human beings irrespective of race
their Creed their color and at the same
time
we need to have justice in the world in
order for their four things to work in
the marketplace so my cosmological
understanding in Islam is that a woman
represents symbolically the the the
virtue of justice in the world and the
man represents of mercy and the man
represents justice and these are the two
hands that God has given human beings
the left on the right hand and and and
they're to work together this is this is
how things are done in the world so the
relationship between men and women is a
relationship that's complementary it's
not an equal relationship and I think
this is where people have a real problem
because equality is a mathematical
concept you don't find equality in the
world you'll find equality in
mathematics as far as worshiping Allah
equality is the same in his eyes as far
as I know there's no equality in worship
and I'll give you an example two people
pray one of them is sincere in his prose
and the other is not but outwardly they
looked exactly the same they're not
equal Iran for instance says are they
equal those who know and those who don't
know they're not equal we're not living
in a world of equality and I think this
is one of the modern misconceptions of
the world this lie to try to create this
so-called egalitarian society there has
never on this planet been an egalitarian
society human beings are not equal
they're not equal in talent and gifts
the only place where they are equal is
before the law that is the only place if
if a rich man and a poor man come before
a judge that judge has to treat them the
same before the law if a male or a
female comes before a judge that man
must treat them equal before the law in
terms of actual real experience in the
world you cannot find equality it's a
myth that in terms of seeking Allah's
reward between a man and
that they have the same potential
potential yes
absolutely that in fact really it's
unfair because women have an easier now
to gain God's grace according to the
Islamic tradition how so well for
instance according to the Prophet
Muhammad a woman came to him and
complained she said we see men go out
and struggle in the way of God defending
the lands of Islam we see them they have
more money than we do and they give
charity and we see them that they go to
the congregational mosque five times a
day and we have children that keep us in
our houses they're getting all the
reward and the Prophet Muhammad peace be
upon him said any woman who fulfills her
trust to God and her responsibility in
her household has the same reward as
that man out there who's doing jihad
who's paying his charity who's going to
the mosque in other words and I think
with the way my wife said that when she
told me she said that's not equal she
said it's that the Prophet understood
how difficult it is to be a woman in
this world because even though we feel
that the women may feel that they are
furthering their purposes at home and
they feel they have another purpose of
doing good for the Ummah in in in terms
of being out in the public eye for those
reasons the greatest good that a mother
can do for not just the Ummah of Islam
but for Humanity is to raise a human
being that is the greatest thing that
she can do and if she thinks she can do
anything greater she's deluded she is
deluded now not every woman is a mother
and there's certainly many many things
that women can do but if a