I have with me a very dear friend and
colleague an American Muslim whom I've
known and admired for perhaps 15 years
now is that the food for the year the
last we first met he's here on a lecture
tour in England very briefly and I'm
going to ask him a few questions about
Islam and Muslims in the West but
focusing particularly on how we get this
most precious of commodities I'm how do
we become scholars or how even nowadays
do we find scholars many people
including I think chef Pham's I believe
that they are something of an endangered
species so how is it that young Muslims
in the West particularly can overcome
this obstacle we don't have proper
institutions of our own so can we travel
to the Islamic world should we do the
traditional way by sitting at the feet
of polymer or should we put our faith in
these great new Islamic universities
that are appearing in all sorts of
countries and I perhaps associate hands
if I could start with that I know that
you've been perhaps one of the last true
advocates of the traditional practice of
a RIF Allah the atala billon we know
that the great medieval anima from a
mammal Bukhari to so many of the great
scholars even in the 19th century all
always spent all of their lives
traveling now they would have liked even
seen her was was well known for having a
thousand camels who have carried his
books wherever he went and use somehow
in this age of mass communications seem
to be trying to maintain this tradition
why do you think that's necessary when
we have Islamic universities why should
we go and find a scholar in say the
depths of Mauritania where I gather
you've been rather than going to a new
university and studying in one place I
think it's it's interesting you brought
that up the idea but I know and it's
certainly something that classical
scholars often wrote books called errata
is then and they would talk about their
experiences traveling and the importance
of actually leaving one's place of birth
in fact Imam and Junaid the famous
scholar and
what they call him the Imam of the to
the five attaining the two groups
because he was both a scholar but he was
also deeply spiritual that man in a
spiritual educator and he talks about
that a man's Iman really is complete
when he enters into a state of Allah
which is estrangement from one's own
land and and I think he's getting that
from the hadith that the Prophet SAW
lisen him said in Sahih Muslim that
Islam began a strange thing and it
returns a strange thing and he said
blessed are the strangers and our Eve as
you well know is one of the meanings is
to be in a strange land where you're not
you're not from and so the idea of going
out is is really you become a hadith and
that in itself is a spiritual station in
Islam to be a hub and what you do is is
attempt to find kindred spirits and I
think also there is a blessing I found
that there was a blessing in setting out
because there is a hadith that the
prophet sal i said i'm said men Sarika
Paria Pagnotta me sophia
el faro fisa BD day hatha yoga whoever
sets out on a path and said ik is so
Luke whoever sets out on a path seeking
knowledge is in the path of God in other
words like a Mujahid somebody uh
struggling in the path of God until he
returns and then there's another
tradition that says that Allah has taken
it upon himself to provide for the
seeker of knowledge so there's I think
one of the wonders for me of literally
setting out was to see that you know my
provision came from places unexpected
because I really when I went out I did
not have the money I didn't really have
the means to take care of myself
and yet I saw just really wondrous
things happen without ever being forced
to ask or beg even though the
traditional scholars consider that
acceptable for a seeker of
sharukh knowledge to ask wealthy people
to help them while they were seeking on
it really never it never became an issue
with me so I I just think there's a lot
of great benefits in doing that it's
kind of setting out literally into into
the world and trusting in Allah and
inshallah with the noblest of intentions
which is to to acquire a knowledge you
must have met some extraordinary people
during our travels Ryan we have any
regular experiences or individuals stand
out in your memory I think we've met
that we we share some common remarkable
people that we've met and and this is
another one of the blessings is that we
are in an age I mean I I like in this
age too in terms of what a human being
is I think you know in a lot of ways
we're 2.2 people now and say this is
human society this is what human beings
are for me is like somebody going to a
into a room with a decrepit old man on a
bed like 80 years old and literally
defecating and urinating in his own bed
and completely incapacitated to say that
this is a human being in other words not
to recognize that it was once a young
man in his youth and vigor and in a lot
of ways the age were living in is like
that it is that the state of human
beings is really so horrifying so going
out and literally seeing individuals
that still represent you know Benny Adam
you know that the Adamic man and the
Adamic woman and they still exist but
unfortunately many of them are literally
hidden I'm saying I only said that
people in a tradition that are called ìa
relates that people will always allow
will always have his head judge his
proofs on the earth and he said either
Aziz Omaha either outwardly
in a state of dignity and strength or -
love more or you know obscured and
hidden out of fear and unfortunately
this is that type of age where
people's adapt their their spiritual
manners have become so detestable that a
lot of really righteous people out of
mercy really to the Ummah have withdrawn
because of the hadith whoever is a
harmful of a friend of mine I declare
war on him and so for that reason many
of the scholars have said that in times
of great distress oftentimes the people
of Allah will literally they'll
disengage from the society until
conditions change so that that for me
was a great blessing mapa has the man
that I studied with in Mauritania is
lives in the middle of the Sahara Desert
and it wasn't just his knowledge I mean
like Imam maddox mother said to madacorp
B'Elanna when he he went as a child to
even hormoz learn from his courtesy
before you learn from his knowledge and
just seeing this man it's one thing to
read about the ancients and to read
about people that spent their nights in
prayer like abu hanifa praying fudger
with the ruler of Asia for 40 years or
something like that you could we can
read these you know had react of
hagiographies about these great holy and
things like that
but to actually see a human being that
embodies that is really shocking because
what you realize is these aren't
mythologies that we're reading about
that these people did exist and that is
is something for me that I think that's
one of the greatest benefits that I have
gotten from meeting these people is to
realize one that the potential of a
human being what we can rise up to and
to to recognize that that that our path
the path of Islam is is a path that
elevates and dignifies and exalts the
human being this is something that's so
difficult for particularly young people
I think brought up in the West isn't it
because the educational matrix here
stresses so much the imparting of
information and the ability to make
konzern into
judgments on the basis of that
information but the idea of education as
being process of osmosis were by or not
just packed with facts but your
potential as allows halifa on the earth
as beautiful dignified compassion of
being something that you learn from your
teachers or learn from your society
that's never stressed monster I've
noticed a lot of young Muslims in
England they have not just lost in many
cases the traditional beautiful adapt
that politeness compassion that way of
being that the metabolism of the
traditional Muslim because of the school
they've been contacted but they've even
lost any access to individuals who can
help them to recover that you can learn
from books but as you well know you
can't really learn Islam from a book you
learned it from a human being a there's
a harbor didn't an Islamic from above it
from the the radiant umbrella of the
Prophet would somehow in 23 years of his
presence took them out of Stone Age
barbarism of the worship of idols and
this crude magical practices you could
imagine and turned them into these
radiant Saints a hundred thousand
defender proceeded to go out and change
the world the entire world there are 23
years just of his presence had that
effect right and on and that
traditionally have tried to be heirs of
that traditionally and pass on some of
that light they've gained from their own
teachers and a continuous chain going
back
I always thought that one of the most
astonishing things I encountered in
studying with as I occasionally did real
traditional Ajith scholars was this
institution about hadith and also that
which you've almost didn't believe when
you read about it in the classical texts
right that somebody cannot just say oh
this hadith is narrated in Bukhari with
such a narration and it's hadith is
noted by Dale and me or someone with
another narration and I have my own it's
an ad for it and then the scholar sits
down and I've seen them do it but it had
definite word it brought him a whole lot
on his shift will learn on Isha for them
and they mentioned perhaps 18 or 20 or
25 people going right back to the
Prophet Allah Salih - and they know all
of these individuals and you've seen
that chain great scholars like you
number than Hadji RA and the soil to use
their own teaching didn't die with their
death that continues today that's one of
the most impressive experiences I think
that I ever ever had doing my my
unfortunately few encounters with with
real additional added scholars but of
course it's vanishing and one of the
great problems we have is that the anima
are getting old and the younger
generation have no access to them and
there are no institutions and channels
whereby the wisdom and also that this
sense of being of the older generation
can be transferred transmitted to the
new veneration of Mosul
I didn't want your opinions are of the
Islamic universities that have been
popping up in various Islamic countries
I studied for a while at al-azhar
and the Tsar was unfortunately
nationalized by NASA who almost closed
it down but one of the nasty things he
did was to abolish the traditional
system of other education whereby every
student was attached to a particular
shape somebody who have you as possible
making sure that he went to the right
classes that he was making good progress
and also his moral and spiritual more
yes Rose was being improved constantly
every single student in the US have had
a shake on sometimes they were quite
terrifying sort of hit masterly figures
with big sticks and then people are
scared of them but as our produced whole
regiments of scholars for the entire
Ummah who are not just bearers of
knowledge but also bearers of the
beautiful adult of Islam tomorrow that
NASA abolished that and he put all of
the students particularly the non
Egyptian students in this great concrete
encampments on the outside of Cairo
he actually demolished a cemetery and
built this just student hostel on top of
it 4,000 students and they just play
around some of them are listening to pop
music some of them well it's quite
appropriate they built it over a salad
do you know and the environment there is
occasionally they come back with a
certain amount of knowledge but they do
not go back with witness of wisdom and
that the bearing of the traditional
Muslim or that has been lost so I don't
know if you think that that's problem
with all of the Islamic universities or
whether they're perhaps some exceptions
I think that that you know we had a
lamented assess systems fascinating
system the you know the word itself
madrasah is not only does it mean a
place of a lesson like it's the noun of
place in Arabic but also dasa which
means to be effaced you know to it has
the idea of you know data set an earth
are the traces literally disappeared and
part of them at essa was that the the
ego or the nafs was effaced the the the
crude you know the jewel literally what
the teachers were doing were carving in
fact they say a talented sila cannot see
the
for the hotel the teaching a youth is
like carving in stone and this is really
what they were doing was was taking this
Johar this essence that has the coal
around it and chiseling away all of this
black coal until you have this diamond
this this precious jewel that then can
go out and and literally illuminate like
you said and transform the places where
they came from but the the system was
beautiful in that you had literally
small method asses all over the Ummah
and the youth of the the villages would
study in these these cook tab and would
memorize the Quran and memorize basic
mattoon
the texts like in Konya and hadith and
even I shot for instance in Morocco and
North Africa in basic fill and then they
would take the extremely bright students
from that group that showed great
promise and they would be then sent to
the major areas of learning like in
Morocco would have been fast so the more
Italians the scholars of the Sahara
would study in the mattresses there
which are now considered these producing
these great allama and they're the first
to admit that they're not automatic this
system that they had was really a
preparatory school for the real
universities of Islam and so they would
go then to fast as a tuna to Clemson to
us how to the nizamiah schools by the
dad Syria the AMIA all these different
or the josiya all these different
schools and there they would after
memorizing quite a considerable amount
of textual material they would learn
not only the a dub but also how to how
to literally take this material and
apply it with intelligence contextually
and this is something that that I my
experience of the the Muslim world is
that we have people that oftentimes
learn a considerable amount of
information it's certainly theirs in the
Muslim world there's much more emphasis
still on rote memorization then say the
Western universities now which teach
more learning kind of theories and
understanding how things work and are
formulated rather than having the wrote
that you can keep your calculator to
plug in but just understand how how the
thing works
but despite that fact what what I'm
witnessing and I I don't know if you'd
agree with this but what I'm seeing is
that we we have yet to deal with the
issues of our age we have yet to to be
able to take the Islamic all of this
massive amount of information and
literally apply it to the age we're
living in in terms of dealing with the
issues of the age and healing the the
diseases of the age because that's what
it was sent down for and I think it's
it's like the story about the student
who stayed with the Sheikh for years and
the chef used to go and he would do the
rakia on the people and and and read
Fatiha and then use his spittle and they
would get well that usually immediately
and when the Sheikh had died they went
to the student and and so the student
read the fact it had then put the
spittle on the person nobody got well
and they asked him what's the matter and
he said well the fact it has still the
same but I think the spinels changed so
you know I think this is part of our our
problem is that the information is all
still there but but the
and women that possess the wisdom
because in the quran when a law says leo
anna muhammad kita bow and hikmah that
it wasn't simply the book that was to be
taught but also the wisdom you know in
order to implement the book contextually
because this is something a lot of
muslims especially our youth don't
understand is that a great deal of our
literature is contextual and the muslims
understood this long before Wittgenstein
and you know linguistics theories of
contextual you know the contextual
nature of language that they had these
many of the hadees are contextual and
you can't simply take a hadith and apply
it universally that it was a whole
science of as feble ruled as a rule the
exam be dropped from the curricular of a
lot of Islamic institutions I've noticed
around a very peculiar development but
it's essential to the understanding of
the Hadees we have young people in this
country now as you don't no doubt in
there who think that they can derive the
fit directly from that rather appalling
translation into English it's a high
helper for a variety of a Quran in
English and same book volume in English
then if you want the answer or fact I'll
just open it to the relevant page pull
out a hadith and there you go was of
course anybody who tried to do that in a
traditional Islamic state would
immediately be hauled before the call D
and giving twenty lashes for his cheek
exam yeah this is how it's always
developing that they think that that is
that's the correct procedure
but do you think there's any hope I mean
what would be your advice if you were
confronted by say keen intelligent
eighteen-year-olds Muslim in England who
wanted to study the Deen what would be
your answer
well this happens to me a lot is that I
really people come to me because and
really my education I think you know you
would certainly admit this as well is
that really you know our education have
been extremely limited but because we've
had some you know background in an age
where many people have had none or even
less that it might appear impressive to
some people but I feel very impoverished
in terms of my own Islamic education one
of the things about hatch says is about
knowledge --is that not only do you have
to have a sound teacher but you you have
to have a long life to is it's almost
one of the prerequisites for acquiring
the knowledge of this teaching because
it's so vast but people do come to me
and and say I really want to study it's
not what should I do for us I think when
we became Muslim because we can we became Muslim similar you became listen what year 79 said okay I became Muslim 77 and and I think we hit the you know just the beginning of this you know the Iranian Revolution was just happening in
79
there was a just a lot of changes
transformations in the Muslim world it
was very easy to live in many Muslim
countries as a Muslim there was no
threat about going to the Masjid having
a beard was not problematic studying
these type things unfortunately because
of the politicized
atmosphere that exists now in the Muslim
Ummah and really what's happening
there's kind of like the 60s in America
during the Vietnam War where
universities ended up being kind of a
war zones ideological war zones and this
is what's happening in the Muslim world
and unfortunately unlike America where
you have although it's you know it's
it's certainly got its own internal
structures that are rather totalitarian
but nonetheless you know Kent State is
one of the few examples where somebody
was actually shot whereas in the Muslim
world we're dealing with some very
ruthless tyrants and dictators and
secret polices and these type of things
that deal with people with impunity and
really are too concerned about what the
what the public opinion might be about
how they deal with dissidents and these
type of things and the other thing it's
unfortunate that I think that students
become dissidents because I think
although it's absolutely important to
have our own moral and ethical
perspectives and understandings for a
student who set out on the path of
knowledge they have to commit a good
amount of time to that and the
abstractions of the world which have
always existed you know we can become we
can become
Cara in in the world I mean you know the
the Muslims have been for over a hundred
years now in massive turmoil political
turmoil and it's very easy to get caught
up in these things as youth but if
somebody's actually committed to
learning something to be beneficial to
the you know to the OMA this is what
we're talking about so unfortunate I
think in the Muslim world right now in
most of the countries it's a very cool
Desai's atmosphere I think there are
still some shifts like you mentioned
that one of the frightening things that
they are getting old when I was in
Mauritania 10 years ago studying I was
in a town there called ghetto which is
well known a traditional town of
dominant tribe there's called tisha
canít and the very scholastic and
spiritual tribe when I was there there
was about 11 or 12 brilliant AHA Matic
yellow man that had mattresses when I
went back I think nine had died and you
could see the results of their deaths in
the village which was one of the most
impressive places I've ever been to
going back there last year I was really
shocked to see the disintegration that
had taken place in just such a short
time young people listening to Michael
Jackson and I mean all of this madness
going into a place that had really been
preserved so you know I'm taking a long
time to get to this but I really think
one of the most important things for us
at this stage is to develop institutions
within the West we this is an imperative
that really we don't have an alternative
we must develop I think there's now an
experiment going on in France right now
there's kind of an attempt to to do this
I don't know how much about it and I
don't know how successful it's going
right now but we there is a modicum of
freedom in in the West that that enables
people to to set up institutions and
study and
these things unfortunately in the vast
majority of the Muslim world that that
freedom does not exist and and Islam and
particularly the quote-unquote Islamists
are a major threat to a perceived threat
I think a perceived threat to the
thought the interests of the West as
well as the the governments in the East
and North Africa in these places so for
an 18 year old right now
I think what I would if there unmarried
and if they if they're able to then I
think there are still some places where
they can go if they're committed to at
least six years I think anything less
would be I mean there might be some
benefit in going less not learning
Arabic but I think we need people that
really are committed and and I want to
emphasize at this point I really don't
think I think you probably agree with
this
the goal of Islam is not to become an
atom quote-unquote it's certainly a
wonderful achievement and one of the
higher callings if not the highest of
all callings but many of the limo were
not many of the Sahaba for instance they
were not that remember they were not
scholars but they were people that what
they did know they acted wholeheartedly
on it they had absolute sincerity
conative in what need was not a scholar
he was a warrior that that was the gift
that that Allah gave that man and it
manifested I will daughter was a an
aesthetic and a deeply spiritual Muslim
who was an inspiration to anyone who saw
him and that was that was what he did
Abu Huraira was was a scholar he was a
high D scholar this was where it wasn't
the Mufti law saying he was not a yeah
whatever is not one of the the Muftis um
even my soul was a Mufti as well as
being a scholar and a judge on what I've
been a cop I was a judge he was a
brilliant scholar SATA Heine is of
course one of the greatest you know the
shining monuments of intellectual
achievement historically the first
intellectual of Islam as he's been
called cuz he was just such a profound
thinker you know as well as being a
deeply spiritual person
Aisha was a great scholar she was not
only a scholar in Islamic matters but
she was a scholar in Jahi poetry she
knew the lineages just a remarkable
woman
and a remarkable human being you know
setting aside her femininity she's just
she's a remarkable human being anyone
male or female that achieved what she
would achieve would be you know honored equal you
PART 2
yes that's interesting isn't it I mean
we tend to in retrospect assume that
Islamic scholarship has always been very
firmly to preserve the command but right
at the beginning of this time it wasn't
really not a present and even if you
read some of the other part works these
vast biographical dictionary of medieval
scholars the scholars of hadith you'll
find that quite a few of the respected
hadith scholars of Muslim Middle Ages
that we can use that for anyway they
were teaching publicly you think of them
Kareena my was here for instance the
great railway at Versailles handlebar a
all the great chains of transmission for
samples I tend to go through whether you
think of people like Citizen was
adopting eighth century Cairo who knows
the truly great for the heart into his
consultant scare away the bottom at that
time who example to sit at her feet to
ask what that was but more recently that
seems to have died away so do think that
this obligation to study the online
method is long would you so open for any
people stick
I feel planes to our argument in this
one the hadith that's related he'd been
major related by happy I believe relate
said that seeking knowledge and there
the it's palpable and it has the you
know the instrument of definition
definitive article there means sacred
knowledge which would include key
Fayette you know the collective duties
as well but but the primary that I mean
is what really is being said there is
dying
knowledge is which are sacred knowledge
is not the worldly knowledge is which
are key fire the Hadees says every man
and Muslim or muslima
and the prophets all I said I'm rarely
uses the male and the female together
unless it's an emphasis in order that
it's not misunderstood and that's one of
the times when he did stress the female
component because one it was very alien
to their culture for women to be
educated all modeled Ilana's recorded as
saying you know that we considered women
similar to animals
prior to Islam this was the Arab
perspective and there was just radical
transformation and I think it's really
fascinating one of the Western
criticisms of Islam is the idea of two
witnesses two females to one male yeah
and what I find really fascinating about
that is that in Hadi if if the woman
fulfills the five qualifications of a
sahih hadith if she is a Baba
you know meticulous in her narration
idea that if he's just in her actions
that there's no shavoo there's no
weaknesses in in in her transmission and
is snod goes all the way back to the
Prophet that she won more Haditha is
accepted completely and certainly
witnessing about a hadith is that is the
highest of all in Islam and so I think
you know that's a very clear indication
that the two Diwan has nothing to do
with a woman's capacity it's more really
just a social allowing for a and it's
really an excuse for women not to have
to get involved in Affairs that would
preoccupy them for more important
Affairs and I don't really know anybody
that wants to bear witness against
people I certainly don't I mean it's not
I would I've always find that odd it's
kind of people say you don't see people
lining up to to be on jury duty or you
know so yeah absolutely women one of I
think probably one of the greatest
causes for the state of our Ummah now is
the fact that our women are deplorable
uneducated and they raised the children
in Mauritania which although it's
certainly not an example for economic
flourish Minh it's still a place where
Islam is practiced on a on a large scale
one of the things that that I noticed in
the children
and they've been healthiest children I
have seen in the Muslim world is that
the many of the women are scholars now
one of the things that's fascinated me
was that the women particularly
emphasized Syrah they learn Syrah and
and then what they do is transmit these
story instead of like reading ridiculous
bedtime stories and the children they
tell the stories of the the Sahaba of
the Aldea you know the great scholars
and they inculcate this in their
children and there are also oftentimes
scholars of the DRH they know like the
neck and all the lineages and the names
of the Sahaba and who they were related
is fascinating so we absolutely need
female scholars
I mean Wesen what dude was a scholar in
African American scholar and in America
and she
you know she talks about the need for
the the feminine perspective being
presented and I think there's there is a
validity to that to that critique
although I don't agree with like faulty
memory she's whole ideas the problem
isn't it everybody assumes they're
jumping on the feminist bandwagon this
is a Trojan horse of westernization
relation with Muslim family after nature
but clearly on the basis of Anderson and
at the practice of the early Muslims it
just supposed to be a model there's so
many examples I think this accident
women who didn't just stay at home spin
but they were fighting with the mayor
you're doing all these things yeah and I
said I should think of what 15% of the
great hadith of Islam have women as key
figures in this nuts all right guys is
one of the seven that of the Sahaba that
relate over 2,000 abuse in in Tulsa has
one of them set up as another green for
do so absolutely it's imperative you
know if I mean if we're going to
reinvigorate this omma with any
just with with any anything what we have
to have women that are going to I mean
you know when I fought him a metal
neecy's argument you know is that no
where are the women in Islam I mean to
me I think that the Matic is is not
possible without the mother of Malik I
mean you know the Omaha to reach out you
know the mothers of man you know these
were great women absent and and and they
produced these men because we know the
importance of the first seven years
which is almost solely the the mother's
domain in in all cultures but it wasn't
just that was that they rules out
teaching and the motherless they were in
their mattresses absolutely look at even
our circus history of Damascus he names
about a thousand of his teachers and
eighty of them were women that's already
what the sixth century where is that in
do is there any equivalent that in in
European and Christianity absolutely not
I mean Julian of Norwich or something
they were so excluded from from life so
well I think they didn't think that they
actually had intellects for years I
think it was the seventh century they
had to cancel the Poitier and they
decided to amend it might we have souls
thanks they were sort of like household
goods and that is you get a washing
machine but in those days you'd have had
a wash or a woman and they had no more
souls and did a washing machine
I mean it is but I think China is
probably the only other place where they
did have female scholastics I don't know
about India in the the pre-islamic
Indian culture but I know China did have
some you know some female scholars but
certainly I know even high John when he
went to Damascus to study hadith he had
four teachers and three were women and
in the South character how father I
think there's about 500 women mentioned
from the yeah there seems to be
particularly Finity to hadith literature
it's interesting that isn't it yeah one
of the things interesting to me is that
there's not a lot of literature books
written by by women which i think is
interesting and i think one of the
reasons for that in Mauritania for
instance there are many women that are
actually scholars that do not write and
actually literally do not write they
their husbands would write the things
that they memorized on the door and
things like that like the the wife of my
teacher who masha'Allah she's a puppy
and in the Maliki v and she's a new
grammar very well and had memorized
two-thirds of the Quran
and we're still studying at about the
age of 65 still memorizing things but
she she did not write and she literally
never learned how to write but read a
sentence to someone as well isn't it
right so so what would we say to this 18
year old we didn't really deal with that
you've got a bit into this extraordinary
feat of memorization that seems to be
scenic or non-traditional scholar and a
lot of young people say nowadays
humorous book and having been brought up
with that faculty activated in Brian can I really study Islam seriously if I simply don't have the ability just to memorize hundreds of pages of texts I think what this is a really interesting point that's fascinated me and I've done a lot of reading about Western research into memories and I've even read like Cicero's you know de memoriam and some
of the Greek like Aristotle has a short treatise on memory and the idea of the loci and the the memory techniques that were used mnemonics and acronyms and these things certainly the Renaissance produced some extraordinary phenomenal examples of the human capacity to
memorize one of the things that we are
not taught in the West is techniques of
memorization and this was something that
I learned from the more Italians mnemonics is used very often in Mauritania just to give two very quick examples it's certainly used in in touch weed out of a lot of debt you know that's everybody learns that but for instance in memorization of Quran there's a lot of mutashabihat ayat and and there's mnemonic devices used for that in for instance the woman them yeah come demands that a lot without coming with a caveat on what I learned
was Khalifa is away goes catheter and
body moon fancy appointment so you learn
a new modoch to recognize you know the
sequential and another one in Serato
stuff would be falcon which would be
faster homebody moon capital machine
alone and these are ways of learning how
to memorize that we're not taught in in
western unfortunately and a lot of it
there's not a whole lot of emphasis put
on memory met you know memories feats of
memory are really quaint and oftentimes
their carnival acts you know are there
you know on television news we have this
guy David Letterman in America it'd be
kind of like something he'd have on you
know his television program is this kind
of thing that people are gonna you know
laugh at or marvel at or something but
there's not this idea of learning the
the knowledge of the past that it needs
fierceful daughter Latino today I mean
the Quran says it's in the breasts of
those who have been given knowledge and
part of that is literally memorizing and
one of the things I think we have to do
and you know we're both fathers so I
think it's something that you've
obviously thought about is you know the
what what's literally taking place in
the brain within the first eleven years
actually it's now in
in Neurology they found that 11 years is
when all of the myelination is taking
place and at the age of 11 it literally
stops so and memory is one of the most
potent ways of developing of developing
fields within the brain itself and
basically at 11 we have what we're going
to use for the rest of our life that's
what's been developed and I think memory
prior to 11 is absolutely essential the
the main emphasis I'm going to talk
about this matter on today I would talk
about this but the main emphasis for
children should be memorization there
should be very little emphasis on fun
actual ratiocination and spatial
reasoning and things like this I mean
even Piaget and in their own Western
educational theorists have have really
proven a lot of this stuff and this was
the traditional approach that you know
you memorize when you're young and then
you learn the the what they call the
awfully adds you know the the
intellectual sciences of dialectic
subjective and month of logic and these
type things learning how to think and
and and then you begin the process of
after about fifteen or sixteen is to
learn the tools whereby you can actually
begin to reflect and think deeply on on
much of what you've memorized in terms
of a 18 year old who's coming in who has
not memorized sometimes almost nothing
both in English and in other languages I
think that they we need to literally
learn the techniques for increasing our
memory I mean I I believe and even
though that there's kind of it's a moot
point amongst Western theorists whether
or not
memory can be developed and also why
some people have brilliant memories and
other people don't
certainly in Mauritania there are
families that are known to have very
powerful memories and they actually
believe that there is a inherited aspect
to memory and I think that's that's true
but there's also another aspect which
I've always had kind of maintained my
hope is what the the Muslims of Trisha
he called them feta which is an opening
and we know now I think in a lot of the
the brain research is that that we do
actually memorize everything we see in
here and but it's locked away in the
subconscious and we really don't have a
direct access to it it's what they call
in
in arabic estaba the ability to to
retrieve that and retrieve to bring
present what is known and even Tamiya
was was notorious for this ability he
had this phenomenal a phenomenal ability
to use the Quran as a Hodja and of proof
and and I've seen this where some
scholars have their capacity to do that
is not as great they kind of go through
this scanning where you ask them and I
know don't they'll kind of go table
discussed eternity exactly it's like a
cd-rom there you know there's it's not
as fast as others so you've got to
eighty-six memories 386 and 486 and so I
think that's that's one aspect but I
don't think we should despair of it I
found personally although I really don't
consider my memory to be that great but
I found personally that there is a
facilitation that that Allah gives to
his Deen I have found memorizing for
instance do eyes of the Prophet had
these verses of the part on that trying
to memorize comparable treaties or
amounts of words in my own language is
extremely difficult and I don't know it
has to do with the cadences of the
Arabic but I personally really do
believe that there is a divine
facilitation and certainly the most
important element there is is intention
is pure intention so I think that people
can still do that even at the age of
eighteen nineteen twenty
I personally have known people that have
memorized the entire Quran as adults and
very worthy and honorable about a task
to set out and to accomplish Nia is the
key thing I have the right Nia the door
somehow swing open in front of you and
if you don't but do you have the best
academic institutions behind you
you simply don't make any query Alvis
Ida Hina's begins the book with
Tavernier
book of intention the are buying of
Immelman Olli begins with the hadith of
intention Sahih Muslim begins his office
with I mean Nia is that's ultimately
what it is
I think that one of the beautiful Hadees
is whoever learns knowledge to impress
the scholars or to amaze the ignorant
people that you know there's no he just
take a seat in the Hellfire there's no
that's not why why we should be seeking
this knowledge you know it should be
part of it is really to make the
intention to preserve to become a
preserver of the Deen of Allah because
the Deen of Allah is not preserved in
books and it never has been is preserved
by human beings that are willing to to
really struggle and and struggle against
their own selves I mean it's easy to
come home and turn on the TV and sit sit
back and watch and it's I think it's
worse here because BBC programming is is
more sophisticated and more interesting
so you can convince yourself you're kind
of learning something but but it's very
easy just to to sit back and be
entertained
by the age but it's like Neil postman's
book I'm using ourselves to death you
know that that's ultimately what this
culture does it just amuses its populace
to death and we're talking upon that
life wasn't created for an amusement or
a pastime and you know ultimately we're
we should be people of I say the Muslims
should be a Mujahid wished ahead you
know somebody who's a man of and on a
woman of jihad and a she had and jihad
is both struggling against the cell but
also against social injustice is outside
of us and then being a mistake of
somebody that is has internalized the
struggle I mean you know the eighth form
in Arabic is a reflexive you know it's
to internalize the first form so if she
had is literally internalizing the
struggle
and that's what what our youth needs to
do and also I think it's absolutely
essential for it for the youth to be
aware of is that that youth and it's
something we cannot appreciate at 20 but
we can appreciate say at 35 and and I
think hopefully at 50 it'll be even more
clear but one of the things at 20 that's
very difficult to appreciate is that
people that are older than us have been
through certain stages and and we have
to understand this contextual nature of
life itself
that that a lot of our feelings at the
age of 20 have to do with with the age
that we're in and to be a man or woman
of depth and substance we have to have
the continuum constantly in perspective
the Muslim is somebody that recognizes
that this is a journey from the cradle
to the grave and we will go through
stages but ultimately the goal should
always be present and therefore to get
caught up in fleeting matters about
youth is is is very dangerous without
the guidance of and wisdom of of age
right I mean the she'll were not called
she'll for nothing shaf means old man
and shaka means old woman and people can
be shaped before their time but it means
they have the wisdom of old age and it
might happen at the age of 25 or in
Malik's case at the age of 17 when he
was giving fatwa and teaching in Medina
so the idea of having the depth of old
age and recognizing the Prophet SAW
Dyson articulated it beautifully in the
hadith leizerman a man named you after
Kabir Ana when I am silviana he's not
from us who doesn't respect the age and
the wisdom that comes with age and also
who does not have compassion
and mercy on the youth and recognize
that a lot of the energy that the youth
have a lot of the what they want to do I
mean I think for instance there's in
England I've come across there's some
politicized groups of youth that are
getting very politically active and I
think there's a lot of sincere energy
there that these people are struggling
with in justices with disenfranchisement
with with you know the conditions of the
Omo but how we need guidance you know it
can't simply be that we that our young
people become you know really anarchist
in a sense of just going out and and
tearing down as opposed to building
because it like so fond of that I mean
said I've never seen a revolutionary
build what he could destroy and and I
think that there's a lot of wisdom in
there yes it's interesting with sending
out these groups which claim to adhere
to the way of the Salaf actually seem
completely oblivious to the fact that
the one thing the Sun up didn't do was
to go out into public places and jump up
and down wave flags and shout allah
akbar jihad jihad looked at the
situation and figured out what was the
most effective way to deal with it and
if it meant they became scholars and
they spent 20 years doing nothing if
that's what they did rolled up their
sleeves and they did it well if they
thought what it means rather than
jumping around in Trafalgar Square and
shouting about the Western conspiracy in
Bosnia we actually go to Bosnia and
study do some they study how to fight a
war or dig holes for the Mujahideen we
get for dinner sore you know heal the
sick yeah absolutely
I'm sure that's an excellent point but
just to jump up and down into the shaft
once prostration doesn't dissipate
frustration you might remember
thoroughly but you go back home enduring
the same problem you might have seen the
hadith as related by Bob irani that LP
memory the hadith from Morocco mentions
in one of his books that one of the
signs of the end of time is the prophet
Elijah Remus refer to said well you
prunella puzzle see AHA that the the
Kazu that has well with just and
shouting and and really it's it's it's a
pathetic statement you know about our
condition because ultimately I think
over thirty years or even longer of
western demonstration because it's a
Western methodology like like you said
it's not it's not from our min hats the
profit in fact he did not allow his
companions to go to the Kaaba and shout
he told them not to do it we and we have
that recorded that some of the Sahaba
wanted to go to the Kaaba and announce
declare their Islam amidst the
mushrikeen
and the father's o lies him did not
allow that and we also know one of the
things in in his descriptions that all
that health mentions is mentioned in the
hadith let me clean Sahaba he never
shouted and and also on the jihad he
used to tell them to lower their voices
doing dhikr on the jihad saying that how
that would apply to a lab in there and
he used to say unto me that led to their
owner awesome you're not calling a deaf
Lord you don't need to raise your voices
so who are we shouting at are we
shouting at the kuffar because Allah has
told us that
that they're not they're not concerned
about us and why should they be I mean
what where have you seen the Muslims
concerned about the social problems of
the Kefauver why should they be
concerned I mean really when we think
about it should we find fault in them
for not helping the situation in Bosnia
or if they're doing things to exacerbate
it are they at fault because as far as a
lot of them are concerned it's not to
their interests to have a Muslim
presence in Europe so I think really
ultimately they're just getting on with
business you know they're doing what
they perceive to be the best thing for
them to do and I think we have to be
really careful about getting caught up
and all that because Allah tells us
constantly to rectify ourselves you know
to to deal with you know instead of
constantly looking at the the the
non-muslims look at the Muslims you know
let's I mean let's stop blaming them
they're only doing what what what what
they understand to be the best thing for
them to do I think a lot of the fault is
that we haven't taken them the message
and and and the sad thing about it is
how can you take a message that you
don't have you know like the air safe up
into a shame there'll be you know
somebody it doesn't have something can't
get it so really yeah we I think we need
to this is a time where and and the
jihad that are taking place in Bosnia
Kashmir and these places Palestine these
are valid jihads that no Muslim can can
say otherwise but at the same time I
think in other places where we're not
directly engaged in combat with with
people that are out to destroy us or to
subjugate us I think it's very important
for the Muslims in this age to literally
to disengage and to start reflecting
deeply about how we got here
where we are and some serious strategies
for getting out of this morass in this
horrific condition that we found
ourselves in and if I think if we do
that something positive can happen
but once you say been along to some
ideological rally and you've managed to
persuade Sandra young 18 year old to
leave them listened to you for a little
bit would you tell him that it is an
obligation upon him to study Islam and
try and learn a little bit of that great
alone to pass on Anna expounded is that
an obligation for him
or are there other legitimate things
that he can be doing with this life well
I we have far buying and fucking liar
they hasn't become a fun time nowadays
because I personally believe I'm this is
my and I think a lot of our mo would
would agree with this but I do believe
that Arabic language is now and I mean
because there are so few people that
actually know it that there's not a key
fire because it's 45 means Keith ayah
means enough if there's enough people
doing it then it's no longer obligatory
and everybody else so I personally do
believe hadith Sciences are obligatory
on all of us
memorizing the Quran is obligatory on
all of us learning because there's not
enough people to do it we don't have
enough people how father for unknown to
teach the children and the prophets of
hey document ID number Quran demo the
best of you are those who teach the
learning of Quran and teach it so this
is the best and highest thing somebody
can do so I think personally I think
what what we need to do is as
individuals is make a commitment and and
this is something that I've been giving
a lot of thought to and formulating in
my own mind and understanding we need to
make a commitment to a methodology of
the revival of Islam and I believe that
that this has taken place several times
historically and every time it has been
directly linked to the revival of the
sciences of the Deen Imam al-ghazali in
his age he's considered the majid did of
his time by the consensus of them I
don't know any I mean it's all it's like
almost much money a man was really when
he talks about this study which is a
study without the image at the beginning
of every century
he lists all of the all of that up to
his own time and the only one he says
there's no difference in opinion of our
family members only that that's that's
my understanding that he was by
consensus is imagine difficult 11 a lot
alike about
you
PART 3
that's extraordinary what at dinner with
the auto butter and my mama doesn't
agree on air yeah that he what he did
was literally write a book called
vecchia over the limit Dean I mean you
you know I'm talking to a man who's
translating it in a beautiful language
which is wonderful that you've done that
that you've learned Arabic to such a
high level and much on that you've also
got the gifts of English that because I
think you mentioned these appalling
translations I think one of the in
justices of our age is people who are
not qualified to translate translating
books I mean I have struggled personally
in my own self in trance should I
translate our shouldn't I just out of
kind of awareness of my own limitations
not only with Arabic but with English as
well because I think to take works of
such majestic language I mean you know
the language that these books have been
written in and certainly the the Quran
and the hadith of the Prophet Elias and
which are in some of the most exalt and
language that human beings have ever
used to take that and put it into this
pathetic English it's blasphemous as
well I think it is a blasphemy because
what what you're doing is it is a
Western person that reads that and this
thing it's reported that the prophets
allies that I'm sad and then you have
this this English that doesn't even make
sense it's making our prophet look like
he was he was not comprehensible did he
that he couldn't he couldn't put
sentences to get really I mean this is
the effect of it and I think that this
is just I mean this is a crime it really
is and I think people like Mataji in
Lebanon and I'll say the name this this
woman I
you know just translating these works
issues they need to fear all along they
really do they need to fear Allah I mean
I know that mahjong that you have a very
strong guys from the Arabic but I know
you've had to go to scholars and have
them explain to you passages from that
yeah which is written in a reasonably I
mean he's not one of the more abstruse
writers he was watching for for the
al-amin right I mean and Mustafa his
book in osoon is extremely abstruse and
complicated language but but his idea
was literally written for for general
educated Muslims and I know that you you
know you've had to I mean isn't that
true you know yeah
so this idea you getting the dictionary
out and people using hans there too
which is a wonderful dictionary
personally and i mean i feel it was a
useful job but it's not a scholastic it
is not a scholastic tool for translating
um you know it's a it's a dictionary you
use for the newspaper it's a small now
it's modern arabic so you have to go to
the great you know late lexicon is
certainly a remarkable achievement it's
limited in that after that's what i said
he never got to whore on so yeah i need
to do is we need quality works in
english but but getting the the whole
point we kind of transgressed here but
the point of this was that Azadi wrote a
fiat uno Medine see father Azusa Eddie
brought back knowledge to Algeria both
mend and foe do that I really think that
we need to seriously study um as a
methodology because he was dealing with
the Cologne
impact one of the great Mujahid's of the
Islamic Ummah historically but not only
that he literally established kunafa I
mean he did it yeah in in Sokoto Misano
serie and cleanses Sano see the
beautiful story of imam Sanusi when the
Turkish came and asked to see his
arsenals the the historian he was in
jail boo which is where their manes Ali
was and he took him to the library and
showed him all their manuscripts and he
said this is our arsenal this is the
Muhsin and that is not a kind of
flippant remark I think that the man he
truly meant that because Allah likes a
know Homer said we are not given victory
because of superior munitions or numbers
he says to say no Homer says decide to
been any more class that almost always
these people are over us in in munitions
and but we are given victory because of
our spiritual strength in our moral
uprightness which is based on knowledge
and that any moment I'm acknowledge is
the Imam of action and this is something
if we if we really want a true
renaissance and not just he's kind of
slogan you know Islam is the solution
and Islam lash out P of ever be if we
want to transcend the slogan Islam then
I think we're going we have to revive
the sciences of the Deen and to this end
we need youth that are willing to commit
I think there's there's benefit Omar
Laura
in in Mecca and Medinah University have
adopted Western methodologies completely
and I think that my own experience from
people that have graduated from those
schools by their own admittance had told
me that they actually felt deprived at
the end of the experience that might not
be true for all graduates I can't speak
for all the graduates but I have met a
considerable amount particularly Western
people that have gone there and really
did feel at the end of it that they
actually had not acquired a whole lot of
knowledge and also the actual experience
was very frustrating and difficult
because of the social issues involved I
have not been to Syria myself
I think Mauritania is an incredibly
difficult place to live I mean I
personally got hepatitis I got dysentery
you know I really suffered physically
living there but I did in the Emirates I
lived with great more attending scholars
there and benefited greatly and I think
the Emirates is a place that that
there's potential to study with
traditional shapes there they're
considerable number of them and but I
know Syria has some some very good
mattresses that are still in existence
and you know people have this idea of
the government and I think we need to to
get beyond this what we want is the
knowledge if the government is is you
know if these shield are not speaking
out against the government I think that
we should respect the Basia and the
Philosopher's lanús of these teachers
that they're obviously they're trying to
preserve the Dean and I think if they're
out there shouting against the
tyrannical leadership and end up in
prison they're not a whole lot of
benefit to the Ummah in prison and it's
certainly we know the hadith that that
the greatest Shaheed is the one who
speaks the truth in front of an unjust
tyrant but I think we also have to
understand that historically those who
did
were one of literally tens of thousands
of anima that were present with
institutions functioning we're in an age
that to lose one scholar is it's a
tragedy
it's fun it's it's it's something really
frightening literally - I mean to lose
one scholar in Syria or Egypt now is the
equivalent of maybe losing ten thousand
two hundred years ago and I don't think
I mean would you I don't think that's an
exaggeration I think it's the case in
Syria actually quite frightened when you
hear that some luminaries time has died
up okay we have students but nobody is
anywhere near his and there where his
level is so I think people have to be
aware of the age were living in one of
the things I'm Azurill ends his book out
of collide with the thing Allen money on
your corner are even bizarre many a man
must know the age he is living in and we
have to understand the age where they
may not be so simplistic and and reduce
issues to black and white
I mean Muslims have been aware of fuzzy
logic for centuries right I mean that
the things are not black and white think
that there are many vamoosh to be had
there's me the problems all I said I've
said there's things that are clear
there's things that are unclear and then
there's things that are clearly Haram
clearly hell out and they know I'm not
when water moves that
Layana moving that Cathedral minute
nasty only a few people understand those
things and this is an age where people
have to recognize that debt matters are
not clear things are not clear and we
have to trust the wisdom and guidance
people like chef side that I'm about and
bolted who's criticized as being some
government Lackey and the truth of the
matter is that man is literally
preserving Islam in in Syria he's you
know I mean
I don't I think that spamela it's just
it's really frightening what I've done
what a lot of young people are this
black and white tendency I suppose is
understandable given the fairly
desperate situation a lot of
disenfranchised youth in the West no
it's not just among Muslims I think you
see I mean given that the established
churches and British Christianity are
dying on their feet now precisely
because they can't give clear-cut
answers to the initiatives of the age
for will drain problems of the age you
see young people dining strange sects
and factions and cults like the Moonies
or David Koresh and in your part of the
world
because they can give them clear answers
as he desires as well and if you're with
us you're from the the saved faction but
if you do a little bit of that then
you're not acceptable and all of those
people in there they're 99 percent of
the people who claim to follow our
religion they're completely beyond the
pale right people like that they like
simplify that matters doesn't it I mean
we don't have to think yeah we don't
have a feather afternoon don't you use
your intellect I mean it's certainly
easy just to surrender my mind to an
ideology which I hate that word you know
I really it bothers me that people talk
about the Islamic ideology because I
know where do I find that I mean even in
Arabic ideology
there's not even a translation for the
word you know this idea that Islam is
some kind of ideology I mean as long as
literally it's me it's it's a I like the
idea of ortho praxis you know that it's
literally it's a correct mode of
behavior based on on a clear
understanding you know but it's
certainly not this ideology that we we
learn like a Marxist learns you know the
vocabulary of Marx's own terms and
acronyms and remember Bob would be that
which becomes a kind of Sieg Heil - Sieg
Heil
absolutely now I think there's a lot of
useful comparisons that one can draw
between the same sex and Christianity
like the moon s or the Branch Davidians
whatever and some of the young cups that
are appearing in various alarm situation
it's a good point in the West but also
in the Islamic world at the root of the
same paradox ruling then we need also to
recognize the this something that you
know I mentioned a lot is that we need
to recognize the historical context in
which we live that that Islam I
literally believe that all the vast
majority of these groups now that have
names and I don't really don't want to
go into naming people and you know but
but the groups that adhere to these
names and titles and things like that
they're gonna be historical footnotes
you know in the history of Islam we have
the motor jet year we have the hot area
we have them with yes SEMA we have the
Martez we have the college we have all
these evolving yeah and on and on and on
the some of its and all these sects that
have come and gone but Islam has
remained it has remained Islam is not an
ephemeral temporal contextual idea this
LOM is its Dean on how it is the Dean of
the truth and it will remain it will be
preserved by the promise of Allah and
the promise of his messenger by us or by
other than us when took their one lowest
of their own right Oakland forma de
Oakland tatical if you don't do it I'll
replace you with people that will do it
and they won't be like you and this is
this is it you know it's Islam will
remain and we will all die but Islam
will remain
it will remain by people by human beings
that stand up and preserved it in every
age and teach it and do you think that
preservation is exclusively academic
what if a young person says ok I'm just
not very academically gifted I didn't
have that kind of career path will do it
by such a person I think what would be
more generally your advice to young
people to continuing people yeah I don't
think everybody is academically inclined
and I don't really believe that that is
you know it's like it's like saying in
these books these this wretched
statement that the main purpose of a
woman is to to bear children have you
come across that it needs some books on
women and Islam I mean nowhere in the
Quran does it say that in fact it says
that we make some women barren and what
she's lost her main role a woman's role
is to know Allah and His Messenger and
to act accordingly you know I mean it
certainly is a primary role but we can't
say that this is the main no no the main
role is like you Vanisher says oh what a
legitimate ionamin could be family
making them and nothing in and yadi for
allah what I'm sort of busy Fatima
nestled by D and int the first
obligation of every human being who has
technique is to know Allah and His
Messenger based on how they how they the
knowledge has been preserved so I think
that that people should learn the father
dying but I also think they should be
committed to some study I mean I believe
you know it's not the idea of maybe
becoming an academic or becoming a
scholar but we should be maintained to
growth to intellectual growth because I
really don't see any excuse for that we
should all be committed to some people
should commit themselves to learning the
Quran to to reciting it to thinking
about it to listening to what the the
scholars say about it and committed to
going to the Masjid you know and
partaking in circles that are beneficial
right that are imparting knowledge and
other than that I think we need to look
at areas we need people
in media we need we need people
journalists we need artists quite
literally I mean you know art is is an
essential element of civilization and
the Muslims the prophets are licensed
all stood in the light Demeter we are
but Jenna Allah is beautiful and he
loves beauty and one of the beauties of
Islamic civilization is that even the
Bedouin have have these you know they
make beautiful rugs they have beautiful
pillows the you know in Mauritania I
always like to mention you know they
take these Bic pens these plastic pens
they take off the plastic and they they
make their own beautiful metal cases
because they think it's the pen well
none of them is photo and you know a lot
swears by the pen I've never been kind
of that it should be honored and they
just you know they don't think that the
plastic is really befitting and that is
some aesthetic understanding that that
really real automatic the Navy says that
you know one of the essential elements
of civilization is the aesthetic aspects
and he said one of the proofs of the the
extraordinary level of of loss of our of
our civilization is that we you know we
ornament our houses with plastic
calligraphed
plastic cups and things like that that
have been made in some factory in china
by non-muslims or something like that
and and we don't respect the so I think
we need calligraphers you know we need
people to go and learn calligraphy
that's not an academic task but it's a
beautiful and wonderful and as a means
of Dawa it's a path for sometimes I mean
Western I can't argue with the sonic art
you can argue with Ahmed Deedat pamphlet
mr. Brown does that knee other wrong
but if you present him with a carpet
from a little below zero it should
attachment a lot like he has to accept
it on something that accurate but to do
that what I produce that exactly I mean
what you know when I went to Grenada
seeing the alhambra i think this is
barbarians can't do this
you know the heavy barbarians cannot
produce what these people produced and
this is a proof against all their claims
about you know this know that but we we
have to stop living on the glories of
the past you know as an OMA we have to
stop pointing to the past like you know
the and reducing certificate I thought
oh that's a doodle I need a fun little
bandana that's a tea these are our
traces they indicate who we were so look
after we're gone at what we left behind
and this is what we have an only have to
ask ourselves can we say this to the
generations that are gonna follow us
here's what we've left behind look at
our traces and see who we are what what
what are what you know what is it
telling the future generations about who
we want look at our pamphlets we don't
even have academic we've become an Ummah
of pamphleteers you know everybody
writes these pamphlets what is Islam
you know why you shouldn't move your
finger in the prayer why you should hold
your hands here as opposed you know
where the great works where are the
great intellectual achievements where
are the artistic achievements you know
even clothes have become it's true I'm
sure that one of them is damning
indictment one could make of the modern
Islamic revival this ideologists and I'm
not talking about all the individuals
who qualify but the Gen
parameters which they set up for
themselves is the fact that really for
the first time in Islamic history we
have a mass movement with no cultural
riches to it rather look at what the
Sahaba produced within a hundred years
there was the Dome of the rock in
Jerusalem one of the great monuments of
human civilization there are the cellar
more so a part of the Senate the
must-haves that they wrote that
architecture the art extraordinary
poetry that athlete other or easy enough
creativity from the human spirit because
of the human spirit is truly enlightened
by religion it date has to flow up like
light from the Sun it has to make a
really beautiful but where is the calm
feel very nice honor that goes with the
modernist I know you're going to a
mosque now and and Muslims that we've
been transmogrified into just these hot
creatures I mean even our clothes don't
you know one of the things about western
clothes I mean they're they're they're
really kind of ugly clothes in my
perspective I mean I thought that before
I was Muslim Muslim clothes are
beautiful they really they're they're
they're heavy for clothes that's what I
like to call them they're highly for
clothes that they honor many Adam but
one of the things about I mean at least
a lot of Western people know how to wear
western clothes one of the things you
find Muslim people they you know they
don't even they look like caricatures
did you take a Sudanese villager out of
his group and tear them and put him into
what Western plates you can find and
it's all suddenly panic sort of yeah
guest workers yes rather than these
noble people with Subhan Allah there's a
hadith and very happy relates that has
some weakness in it but but I think in
historically it's fascinating he said
that I'm not a multi generator
either was i oh ha what Aloha is zoom
that the turbines are the Crown's of the
Arab people and when they take them off
Allah will take away their dignity and
and it's fascinating that you can see
that the 10z mass in the 1850s I ain't
you're much more knowledgeable about
this in iron but when one of the things
that they did was literally get the
turbines off the oume and this is a
really major turning point
in the in the beginning of the decline
and disintegration of the the Muslim
power and dignity in physical change
people's outward form it has an effect
on you well absolutely believe in the
intermingling of rebellion this very
often my father and I I'd do something
to your outward it affect your spirit if
you just details there it will manifest
on the hour
absolutely their survival it's very true
anyway and thank you very much for your
time I hope ten times more than you have
well it's you know I one of the reasons
that I was excited about coming here and
I'm not just you know this isn't just
some weed a minute but I really was
looking forward to seeing you I think
that the work that you're doing is
you're just one of the few scholars
right now that's that's just doing work
of such a high caliber that I think it's
that there's nothing I just hope that
Allah will exceptional times in it I
love it so and I really hope that that
more people begin to take this task upon
themselves of presenting Islam to to the
West I think that you know just to
finish this this off I think
the Europeans and the Americans are at
such a deep crisis right now they really
are they're aware of it they're
intellectuals are aware of it they're
there they're the writings are shouting
it out you know Thoreau said most people
live lives of quiet desperation the
desperation is no longer quiet
it's literally people are shouting it at
the top of their lungs and this long
took the most savage bloody people
people that could bury their daughters
alive people that could eat the livers
of their their enemies you know on the
battlefield a woman that can do that it
took those people and transformed them
into these you know these deeply human
compassionate people that had a thirst
for knowledge for EM and we reviewed
with the love of God that they literally
went and they transformed the world and
and we cannot you know the anglo-saxons
have a horrific history you know of what
they've done to the world the havoc that
they wreaked upon the world but they are
recipients of the mercy of Allah just
like anybody else the French we know
what they did to the Muslims but we also
know what the mushrikeen did to the
prophet sallallaahu so no and he took
this long to them he gave it to them and
they became the people that literally
went out and transformed the world and I
think Allah in his deep and infinite
wisdom has placed the Muslims in the
heart of the Western world and this has
happened historically before the
Christians were thrust into the heart of
the Roman Empire and they transformed it
they really did they transformed it and
that their enemies who had persecuted
them for three centuries adopted their
religion and
and I don't see why it can't happen
again
I mean I just I believe in the power of
Allah and I believe in the
transformative message of Islam and I
and I really believe that this is deenal
Haq that that people will recognize the
truth of it we have massive amount of
work ahead of us you know you're fully
aware of that and I'm aware of it and I
just we don't have time to bicker you
know we don't have time to get in petty
confrontations with each other this is a
time where we really have to unite and
and and and do some serious jihad and HT
HOD and do some thicker thicker and
sugar and take this Deen out to the
people you know I think they're thirsty
for the herbs the earth is thirsty for
it you know this earth wants to be
worshipped on it doesn't want that
and the earth is thirsty for and we need
to heal the earth as well not just the
people on it but the earth is suffering
from our gross injustice is so I hope
inshallah you know the people hearing
this you know we'll just think about
these things and then and I hope and
shallowed there's some benefit money one
of my favorite verses in the Quran and
all of the Quran is really my favorite
verses but and the Dean yes Tamera they
just Amira now called a theater owner a
son of those who listen to what's said
and they follow the best of it so in
Shaba ask allah subhana wa qarna that
this conversation is some benefit and
people can derive some benefit meaning
from it and take what's useful from it
and discard what's not something that is
like alchemy