because in the quran when a law says leo
anna muhammad kita bow and hikmah that
it wasn't simply the book that was to be
taught but also the wisdom you know in
order to implement the book contextually
because this is something a lot of
muslims especially our youth don't
understand is that a great deal of our
literature is contextual and the muslims
understood this long before Wittgenstein
and you know linguistics theories of
contextual you know the contextual
nature of language that they had these
many of the hadees are contextual and
you can't simply take a hadith and apply
it universally that it was a whole
science of as feble ruled as a rule the
exam be dropped from the curricular of a
lot of Islamic institutions I've noticed
around a very peculiar development but
it's essential to the understanding of
the Hadees we have young people in this
country now as you don't no doubt in
there who think that they can derive the
fit directly from that rather appalling
translation into English it's a high
helper for a variety of a Quran in
English and same book volume in English
then if you want the answer or fact I'll
just open it to the relevant page pull
out a hadith and there you go was of
course anybody who tried to do that in a
traditional Islamic state would
immediately be hauled before the call D
and giving twenty lashes for his cheek
exam yeah this is how it's always
developing that they think that that is
that's the correct procedure
but do you think there's any hope I mean
what would be your advice if you were
confronted by say keen intelligent
eighteen-year-olds Muslim in England who
wanted to study the Deen what would be
your answer
well this happens to me a lot is that I
really people come to me because and
really my education I think you know you
would certainly admit this as well is
that really you know our education have
been extremely limited but because we've
had some you know background in an age
where many people have had none or even
less that it might appear impressive to
some people but I feel very impoverished
in terms of my own Islamic education one
of the things about hatch says is about
knowledge --is that not only do you have
to have a sound teacher but you you have
to have a long life to is it's almost
one of the prerequisites for acquiring
the knowledge of this teaching because
it's so vast but people do come to me
and and say I really want to study it's
not what should I do for us I think when
we became Muslim because we can we became Muslim similar you became listen what year 79 said okay I became Muslim 77 and and I think we hit the you know just the beginning of this you know the Iranian Revolution was just happening in
79
there was a just a lot of changes
transformations in the Muslim world it
was very easy to live in many Muslim
countries as a Muslim there was no
threat about going to the Masjid having
a beard was not problematic studying
these type things unfortunately because
of the politicized
atmosphere that exists now in the Muslim
Ummah and really what's happening
there's kind of like the 60s in America
during the Vietnam War where
universities ended up being kind of a
war zones ideological war zones and this
is what's happening in the Muslim world
and unfortunately unlike America where
you have although it's you know it's
it's certainly got its own internal
structures that are rather totalitarian
but nonetheless you know Kent State is
one of the few examples where somebody
was actually shot whereas in the Muslim
world we're dealing with some very
ruthless tyrants and dictators and
secret polices and these type of things
that deal with people with impunity and
really are too concerned about what the
what the public opinion might be about
how they deal with dissidents and these
type of things and the other thing it's
unfortunate that I think that students
become dissidents because I think
although it's absolutely important to
have our own moral and ethical
perspectives and understandings for a
student who set out on the path of
knowledge they have to commit a good
amount of time to that and the
abstractions of the world which have
always existed you know we can become we
can become
Cara in in the world I mean you know the
the Muslims have been for over a hundred
years now in massive turmoil political
turmoil and it's very easy to get caught
up in these things as youth but if
somebody's actually committed to
learning something to be beneficial to
the you know to the OMA this is what
we're talking about so unfortunate I
think in the Muslim world right now in
most of the countries it's a very cool
Desai's atmosphere I think there are
still some shifts like you mentioned
that one of the frightening things that
they are getting old when I was in
Mauritania 10 years ago studying I was
in a town there called ghetto which is
well known a traditional town of
dominant tribe there's called tisha
canít and the very scholastic and
spiritual tribe when I was there there
was about 11 or 12 brilliant AHA Matic
yellow man that had mattresses when I
went back I think nine had died and you
could see the results of their deaths in
the village which was one of the most
impressive places I've ever been to
going back there last year I was really
shocked to see the disintegration that
had taken place in just such a short
time young people listening to Michael
Jackson and I mean all of this madness
going into a place that had really been
preserved so you know I'm taking a long
time to get to this but I really think
one of the most important things for us
at this stage is to develop institutions
within the West we this is an imperative
that really we don't have an alternative
we must develop I think there's now an
experiment going on in France right now
there's kind of an attempt to to do this
I don't know how much about it and I
don't know how successful it's going
right now but we there is a modicum of
freedom in in the West that that enables
people to to set up institutions and
study and
these things unfortunately in the vast
majority of the Muslim world that that
freedom does not exist and and Islam and
particularly the quote-unquote Islamists
are a major threat to a perceived threat
I think a perceived threat to the
thought the interests of the West as
well as the the governments in the East
and North Africa in these places so for
an 18 year old right now
I think what I would if there unmarried
and if they if they're able to then I
think there are still some places where
they can go if they're committed to at
least six years I think anything less
would be I mean there might be some
benefit in going less not learning
Arabic but I think we need people that
really are committed and and I want to
emphasize at this point I really don't
think I think you probably agree with
this
the goal of Islam is not to become an
atom quote-unquote it's certainly a
wonderful achievement and one of the
higher callings if not the highest of
all callings but many of the limo were
not many of the Sahaba for instance they
were not that remember they were not
scholars but they were people that what
they did know they acted wholeheartedly
on it they had absolute sincerity
conative in what need was not a scholar
he was a warrior that that was the gift
that that Allah gave that man and it
manifested I will daughter was a an
aesthetic and a deeply spiritual Muslim
who was an inspiration to anyone who saw
him and that was that was what he did
Abu Huraira was was a scholar he was a
high D scholar this was where it wasn't
the Mufti law saying he was not a yeah
whatever is not one of the the Muftis um
even my soul was a Mufti as well as
being a scholar and a judge on what I've
been a cop I was a judge he was a
brilliant scholar SATA Heine is of
course one of the greatest you know the
shining monuments of intellectual
achievement historically the first
intellectual of Islam as he's been
called cuz he was just such a profound
thinker you know as well as being a
deeply spiritual person
Aisha was a great scholar she was not
only a scholar in Islamic matters but
she was a scholar in Jahi poetry she
knew the lineages just a remarkable
woman
and a remarkable human being you know
setting aside her femininity she's just
she's a remarkable human being anyone
male or female that achieved what she
would achieve would be you know honored equal you
PART 2
yes that's interesting isn't it I mean
we tend to in retrospect assume that
Islamic scholarship has always been very
firmly to preserve the command but right
at the beginning of this time it wasn't
really not a present and even if you
read some of the other part works these
vast biographical dictionary of medieval
scholars the scholars of hadith you'll
find that quite a few of the respected
hadith scholars of Muslim Middle Ages
that we can use that for anyway they
were teaching publicly you think of them
Kareena my was here for instance the
great railway at Versailles handlebar a
all the great chains of transmission for
samples I tend to go through whether you
think of people like Citizen was
adopting eighth century Cairo who knows
the truly great for the heart into his
consultant scare away the bottom at that
time who example to sit at her feet to
ask what that was but more recently that
seems to have died away so do think that
this obligation to study the online
method is long would you so open for any
people stick
I feel planes to our argument in this
one the hadith that's related he'd been
major related by happy I believe relate
said that seeking knowledge and there
the it's palpable and it has the you
know the instrument of definition
definitive article there means sacred
knowledge which would include key
Fayette you know the collective duties
as well but but the primary that I mean
is what really is being said there is
dying
knowledge is which are sacred knowledge
is not the worldly knowledge is which
are key fire the Hadees says every man
and Muslim or muslima
and the prophets all I said I'm rarely
uses the male and the female together
unless it's an emphasis in order that
it's not misunderstood and that's one of
the times when he did stress the female
component because one it was very alien
to their culture for women to be
educated all modeled Ilana's recorded as
saying you know that we considered women
similar to animals
prior to Islam this was the Arab
perspective and there was just radical
transformation and I think it's really
fascinating one of the Western
criticisms of Islam is the idea of two
witnesses two females to one male yeah
and what I find really fascinating about
that is that in Hadi if if the woman
fulfills the five qualifications of a
sahih hadith if she is a Baba
you know meticulous in her narration
idea that if he's just in her actions
that there's no shavoo there's no
weaknesses in in in her transmission and
is snod goes all the way back to the
Prophet that she won more Haditha is
accepted completely and certainly
witnessing about a hadith is that is the
highest of all in Islam and so I think
you know that's a very clear indication
that the two Diwan has nothing to do
with a woman's capacity it's more really
just a social allowing for a and it's
really an excuse for women not to have
to get involved in Affairs that would
preoccupy them for more important
Affairs and I don't really know anybody
that wants to bear witness against
people I certainly don't I mean it's not
I would I've always find that odd it's
kind of people say you don't see people
lining up to to be on jury duty or you
know so yeah absolutely women one of I
think probably one of the greatest
causes for the state of our Ummah now is
the fact that our women are deplorable
uneducated and they raised the children
in Mauritania which although it's
certainly not an example for economic
flourish Minh it's still a place where
Islam is practiced on a on a large scale
one of the things that that I noticed in
the children
and they've been healthiest children I
have seen in the Muslim world is that
the many of the women are scholars now
one of the things that's fascinated me
was that the women particularly
emphasized Syrah they learn Syrah and
and then what they do is transmit these
story instead of like reading ridiculous
bedtime stories and the children they
tell the stories of the the Sahaba of
the Aldea you know the great scholars
and they inculcate this in their
children and there are also oftentimes
scholars of the DRH they know like the
neck and all the lineages and the names
of the Sahaba and who they were related
is fascinating so we absolutely need
female scholars
I mean Wesen what dude was a scholar in
African American scholar and in America
and she
you know she talks about the need for
the the feminine perspective being
presented and I think there's there is a
validity to that to that critique
although I don't agree with like faulty
memory she's whole ideas the problem
isn't it everybody assumes they're
jumping on the feminist bandwagon this
is a Trojan horse of westernization
relation with Muslim family after nature
but clearly on the basis of Anderson and
at the practice of the early Muslims it
just supposed to be a model there's so
many examples I think this accident
women who didn't just stay at home spin
but they were fighting with the mayor
you're doing all these things yeah and I
said I should think of what 15% of the
great hadith of Islam have women as key
figures in this nuts all right guys is
one of the seven that of the Sahaba that
relate over 2,000 abuse in in Tulsa has
one of them set up as another green for
do so absolutely it's imperative you
know if I mean if we're going to
reinvigorate this omma with any
just with with any anything what we have
to have women that are going to I mean
you know when I fought him a metal
neecy's argument you know is that no
where are the women in Islam I mean to
me I think that the Matic is is not
possible without the mother of Malik I
mean you know the Omaha to reach out you
know the mothers of man you know these
were great women absent and and and they
produced these men because we know the
importance of the first seven years
which is almost solely the the mother's
domain in in all cultures but it wasn't
just that was that they rules out
teaching and the motherless they were in
their mattresses absolutely look at even
our circus history of Damascus he names
about a thousand of his teachers and
eighty of them were women that's already
what the sixth century where is that in
do is there any equivalent that in in
European and Christianity absolutely not
I mean Julian of Norwich or something
they were so excluded from from life so
well I think they didn't think that they
actually had intellects for years I
think it was the seventh century they
had to cancel the Poitier and they
decided to amend it might we have souls
thanks they were sort of like household
goods and that is you get a washing
machine but in those days you'd have had
a wash or a woman and they had no more
souls and did a washing machine
I mean it is but I think China is
probably the only other place where they
did have female scholastics I don't know
about India in the the pre-islamic
Indian culture but I know China did have
some you know some female scholars but
certainly I know even high John when he
went to Damascus to study hadith he had
four teachers and three were women and
in the South character how father I
think there's about 500 women mentioned
from the yeah there seems to be
particularly Finity to hadith literature
it's interesting that isn't it yeah one
of the things interesting to me is that
there's not a lot of literature books
written by by women which i think is
interesting and i think one of the
reasons for that in Mauritania for
instance there are many women that are
actually scholars that do not write and
actually literally do not write they
their husbands would write the things
that they memorized on the door and
things like that like the the wife of my
teacher who masha'Allah she's a puppy
and in the Maliki v and she's a new
grammar very well and had memorized
two-thirds of the Quran
and we're still studying at about the
age of 65 still memorizing things but
she she did not write and she literally
never learned how to write but read a
sentence to someone as well isn't it
right so so what would we say to this 18
year old we didn't really deal with that
you've got a bit into this extraordinary
feat of memorization that seems to be
scenic or non-traditional scholar and a
lot of young people say nowadays
humorous book and having been brought up
with that faculty activated in Brian can I really study Islam seriously if I simply don't have the ability just to memorize hundreds of pages of texts I think what this is a really interesting point that's fascinated me and I've done a lot of reading about Western research into memories and I've even read like Cicero's you know de memoriam and some
of the Greek like Aristotle has a short treatise on memory and the idea of the loci and the the memory techniques that were used mnemonics and acronyms and these things certainly the Renaissance produced some extraordinary phenomenal examples of the human capacity to
memorize one of the things that we are
not taught in the West is techniques of
memorization and this was something that
I learned from the more Italians mnemonics is used very often in Mauritania just to give two very quick examples it's certainly used in in touch weed out of a lot of debt you know that's everybody learns that but for instance in memorization of Quran there's a lot of mutashabihat ayat and and there's mnemonic devices used for that in for instance the woman them yeah come demands that a lot without coming with a caveat on what I learned
was Khalifa is away goes catheter and
body moon fancy appointment so you learn
a new modoch to recognize you know the
sequential and another one in Serato
stuff would be falcon which would be
faster homebody moon capital machine
alone and these are ways of learning how
to memorize that we're not taught in in
western unfortunately and a lot of it
there's not a whole lot of emphasis put
on memory met you know memories feats of
memory are really quaint and oftentimes
their carnival acts you know are there
you know on television news we have this
guy David Letterman in America it'd be
kind of like something he'd have on you
know his television program is this kind
of thing that people are gonna you know
laugh at or marvel at or something but
there's not this idea of learning the
the knowledge of the past that it needs
fierceful daughter Latino today I mean
the Quran says it's in the breasts of
those who have been given knowledge and
part of that is literally memorizing and
one of the things I think we have to do
and you know we're both fathers so I
think it's something that you've
obviously thought about is you know the
what what's literally taking place in
the brain within the first eleven years
actually it's now in
in Neurology they found that 11 years is
when all of the myelination is taking
place and at the age of 11 it literally
stops so and memory is one of the most
potent ways of developing of developing
fields within the brain itself and
basically at 11 we have what we're going
to use for the rest of our life that's
what's been developed and I think memory
prior to 11 is absolutely essential the
the main emphasis I'm going to talk
about this matter on today I would talk
about this but the main emphasis for
children should be memorization there
should be very little emphasis on fun
actual ratiocination and spatial
reasoning and things like this I mean
even Piaget and in their own Western
educational theorists have have really
proven a lot of this stuff and this was
the traditional approach that you know
you memorize when you're young and then
you learn the the what they call the
awfully adds you know the the
intellectual sciences of dialectic
subjective and month of logic and these
type things learning how to think and
and and then you begin the process of
after about fifteen or sixteen is to
learn the tools whereby you can actually
begin to reflect and think deeply on on
much of what you've memorized in terms
of a 18 year old who's coming in who has
not memorized sometimes almost nothing
both in English and in other languages I
think that they we need to literally
learn the techniques for increasing our
memory I mean I I believe and even
though that there's kind of it's a moot
point amongst Western theorists whether
or not
memory can be developed and also why
some people have brilliant memories and
other people don't
certainly in Mauritania there are
families that are known to have very
powerful memories and they actually
believe that there is a inherited aspect
to memory and I think that's that's true
but there's also another aspect which
I've always had kind of maintained my
hope is what the the Muslims of Trisha
he called them feta which is an opening
and we know now I think in a lot of the
the brain research is that that we do
actually memorize everything we see in
here and but it's locked away in the
subconscious and we really don't have a
direct access to it it's what they call
in
in arabic estaba the ability to to
retrieve that and retrieve to bring
present what is known and even Tamiya
was was notorious for this ability he
had this phenomenal a phenomenal ability
to use the Quran as a Hodja and of proof
and and I've seen this where some
scholars have their capacity to do that
is not as great they kind of go through
this scanning where you ask them and I
know don't they'll kind of go table
discussed eternity exactly it's like a
cd-rom there you know there's it's not
as fast as others so you've got to
eighty-six memories 386 and 486 and so I
think that's that's one aspect but I
don't think we should despair of it I
found personally although I really don't
consider my memory to be that great but
I found personally that there is a
facilitation that that Allah gives to
his Deen I have found memorizing for
instance do eyes of the Prophet had
these verses of the part on that trying
to memorize comparable treaties or
amounts of words in my own language is
extremely difficult and I don't know it
has to do with the cadences of the
Arabic but I personally really do
believe that there is a divine
facilitation and certainly the most
important element there is is intention
is pure intention so I think that people
can still do that even at the age of
eighteen nineteen twenty
I personally have known people that have
memorized the entire Quran as adults and
very worthy and honorable about a task
to set out and to accomplish Nia is the
key thing I have the right Nia the door
somehow swing open in front of you and
if you don't but do you have the best
academic institutions behind you
you simply don't make any query Alvis
Ida Hina's begins the book with
Tavernier
book of intention the are buying of
Immelman Olli begins with the hadith of
intention Sahih Muslim begins his office
with I mean Nia is that's ultimately
what it is
I think that one of the beautiful Hadees
is whoever learns knowledge to impress
the scholars or to amaze the ignorant
people that you know there's no he just
take a seat in the Hellfire there's no
that's not why why we should be seeking
this knowledge you know it should be
part of it is really to make the
intention to preserve to become a
preserver of the Deen of Allah because
the Deen of Allah is not preserved in
books and it never has been is preserved
by human beings that are willing to to
really struggle and and struggle against
their own selves I mean it's easy to
come home and turn on the TV and sit sit
back and watch and it's I think it's
worse here because BBC programming is is
more sophisticated and more interesting
so you can convince yourself you're kind
of learning something but but it's very
easy just to to sit back and be
entertained
by the age but it's like Neil postman's
book I'm using ourselves to death you
know that that's ultimately what this
culture does it just amuses its populace
to death and we're talking upon that
life wasn't created for an amusement or
a pastime and you know ultimately we're
we should be people of I say the Muslims
should be a Mujahid wished ahead you
know somebody who's a man of and on a
woman of jihad and a she had and jihad
is both struggling against the cell but
also against social injustice is outside
of us and then being a mistake of
somebody that is has internalized the
struggle I mean you know the eighth form
in Arabic is a reflexive you know it's
to internalize the first form so if she
had is literally internalizing the
struggle
and that's what what our youth needs to
do and also I think it's absolutely
essential for it for the youth to be
aware of is that that youth and it's
something we cannot appreciate at 20 but
we can appreciate say at 35 and and I
think hopefully at 50 it'll be even more
clear but one of the things at 20 that's
very difficult to appreciate is that
people that are older than us have been
through certain stages and and we have
to understand this contextual nature of
life itself
that that a lot of our feelings at the
age of 20 have to do with with the age
that we're in and to be a man or woman
of depth and substance we have to have
the continuum constantly in perspective
the Muslim is somebody that recognizes
that this is a journey from the cradle
to the grave and we will go through
stages but ultimately the goal should
always be present and therefore to get
caught up in fleeting matters about
youth is is is very dangerous without
the guidance of and wisdom of of age
right I mean the she'll were not called
she'll for nothing shaf means old man
and shaka means old woman and people can
be shaped before their time but it means
they have the wisdom of old age and it
might happen at the age of 25 or in
Malik's case at the age of 17 when he
was giving fatwa and teaching in Medina
so the idea of having the depth of old
age and recognizing the Prophet SAW
Dyson articulated it beautifully in the
hadith leizerman a man named you after
Kabir Ana when I am silviana he's not
from us who doesn't respect the age and
the wisdom that comes with age and also
who does not have compassion
and mercy on the youth and recognize
that a lot of the energy that the youth
have a lot of the what they want to do I
mean I think for instance there's in
England I've come across there's some
politicized groups of youth that are
getting very politically active and I
think there's a lot of sincere energy
there that these people are struggling
with in justices with disenfranchisement
with with you know the conditions of the
Omo but how we need guidance you know it
can't simply be that we that our young
people become you know really anarchist
in a sense of just going out and and
tearing down as opposed to building
because it like so fond of that I mean
said I've never seen a revolutionary
build what he could destroy and and I
think that there's a lot of wisdom in
there yes it's interesting with sending
out these groups which claim to adhere
to the way of the Salaf actually seem
completely oblivious to the fact that
the one thing the Sun up didn't do was
to go out into public places and jump up
and down wave flags and shout allah
akbar jihad jihad looked at the
situation and figured out what was the
most effective way to deal with it and
if it meant they became scholars and
they spent 20 years doing nothing if
that's what they did rolled up their
sleeves and they did it well if they
thought what it means rather than
jumping around in Trafalgar Square and
shouting about the Western conspiracy in
Bosnia we actually go to Bosnia and
study do some they study how to fight a
war or dig holes for the Mujahideen we
get for dinner sore you know heal the
sick yeah absolutely
I'm sure that's an excellent point but
just to jump up and down into the shaft
once prostration doesn't dissipate
frustration you might remember
thoroughly but you go back home enduring
the same problem you might have seen the
hadith as related by Bob irani that LP
memory the hadith from Morocco mentions
in one of his books that one of the
signs of the end of time is the prophet
Elijah Remus refer to said well you
prunella puzzle see AHA that the the
Kazu that has well with just and
shouting and and really it's it's it's a
pathetic statement you know about our
condition because ultimately I think
over thirty years or even longer of
western demonstration because it's a
Western methodology like like you said
it's not it's not from our min hats the
profit in fact he did not allow his
companions to go to the Kaaba and shout
he told them not to do it we and we have
that recorded that some of the Sahaba
wanted to go to the Kaaba and announce
declare their Islam amidst the
mushrikeen
and the father's o lies him did not
allow that and we also know one of the
things in in his descriptions that all
that health mentions is mentioned in the
hadith let me clean Sahaba he never
shouted and and also on the jihad he
used to tell them to lower their voices
doing dhikr on the jihad saying that how
that would apply to a lab in there and
he used to say unto me that led to their
owner awesome you're not calling a deaf
Lord you don't need to raise your voices
so who are we shouting at are we
shouting at the kuffar because Allah has
told us that
that they're not they're not concerned
about us and why should they be I mean
what where have you seen the Muslims
concerned about the social problems of
the Kefauver why should they be
concerned I mean really when we think
about it should we find fault in them
for not helping the situation in Bosnia
or if they're doing things to exacerbate
it are they at fault because as far as a
lot of them are concerned it's not to
their interests to have a Muslim
presence in Europe so I think really
ultimately they're just getting on with
business you know they're doing what
they perceive to be the best thing for
them to do and I think we have to be
really careful about getting caught up
and all that because Allah tells us
constantly to rectify ourselves you know
to to deal with you know instead of
constantly looking at the the the
non-muslims look at the Muslims you know
let's I mean let's stop blaming them
they're only doing what what what what
they understand to be the best thing for
them to do I think a lot of the fault is
that we haven't taken them the message
and and and the sad thing about it is
how can you take a message that you
don't have you know like the air safe up
into a shame there'll be you know
somebody it doesn't have something can't
get it so really yeah we I think we need
to this is a time where and and the
jihad that are taking place in Bosnia
Kashmir and these places Palestine these
are valid jihads that no Muslim can can
say otherwise but at the same time I
think in other places where we're not
directly engaged in combat with with
people that are out to destroy us or to
subjugate us I think it's very important