engagement in the service in the love in
the mercy even in the trust is always
over against this profound grimness and
and so that even even st. francis of
assisi a Chester Chesterton says he was
able to be such a good aesthetic because
he loves so intensely so his isolation
will goes hand in hand with this
profound sensitivity to the suffering of
creatures human beings and others and
we're in a situation where I
our isolations not chosen the way it was
was a Francis or the months in some is
forced and we're in a moment of such
spiritual decaying wall deterioration
with the greed and the indifference and
corruption simply running a but
everywhere we look throughout our
institution to our everyday life from
the White House to the the tooth to Town
Hall to the black in the corner so that
the rimless becomes even more intense
and hence the need for more
fortification which is spiritual and
moral you know Cornell I I think this
crisis like all great crises in history
is also going to show us true human
heroism and even absolute absolutely
holiness I read a story today we're
already trained it would say that among
fellow citizens about bouncing back in
wonderful ways and save us screwing
around the world but know already and
I'm Sonia well I heard a story today
about an elderly woman not here in the
United States elsewhere who is in need
of a ventilator because of the kovat 19
a virus for breathing but she declined
it in order that it not be withheld from
a younger person so that the younger
person who had not of course yet lived a
full life as the older woman had would
have an opportunity of life now I say
this as a firm supporter of the idea
that there must be no discrimination
including age based or disability-based
discrimination in health care allocation
even though we have shortages so I do
not want the government or the health
care system to discriminate on the basis
of age or on the basis of disability and
I think there's going to be a lot of
temptation to do that to involve
ourselves in that kind of invidious
discrimination I worry about our
cognitively or physically disabled two
brothers and sisters people with Down
syndrome or with addictions or with
bipolar disease
not in being given equal treatment and
fair treatment in the allocation of
resources but laying that issue aside as
important as it is I just want to point
to that one little act of heroism or
self-sacrifice real christ-like
self-sacrifice on the part of somebody
who turned down a ventilator so that
someone else could have it my dear
friend Mariana Orlandi who is an Italian
visiting fellow at the Madison program
here at Princeton told me that already
65 or 70 Catholic priests and Italy have
themselves died of kovat 19 priests who
were ministering to people who were
desperately ill with with the disease
again christ-like self-sacrifice
carrying out their vocation their
service their mission to others and
giving their their own lives and we of
course are deeply saddened by this loss
of life at the same time we cannot but
be inspired by the courage and by the
heroism and by the willingness to deny
and even sacrifice self for the sake of
of others just on your question of
isolation specifically and I think two
points that are worth making one is if I
think we've all been quoting from the
Catholic Church at some point tonight so
I'll add to theirs there's a pretty
recent book by Robert Cardinal Sarathy
a very famous African Cardinal about the
power of silence it's the subtitle
something like against the Cato ship of
noise and of course I mean we need to
reach out to and be compassionate to
people in isolation people who are
suffering from the psychological effects
of quarantine but for those of us who
are healthy and with resources I think
it's worth taking the opportunity for us
to reflect on how silence can be a good
thing
Hasan's can be a blessing a cardinal
sauernotes
in the book you know that we learn in
the Hebrew prophets that our God is not
in the fund or the earthquake right but
in the still small voice and you know we
in an age in which no one can even go to
the gym or take a job without earbuds
but whether we're just afraid if our
thoughts oh we're just afraid to be
alone I think it's I think I think we
can take this opportunity as others were
saying before as a blessing in disguise
that the opportunity to rediscover the
benefits I like actually you subset of
in the mystic tradition of how great
that can be and as a counterpoint to
that though not in contradiction in any
way it's interesting that a requirement
to be silent and a requirement or to be
separate and a requirement to distance
from each other is actually we
establishing human connections of the
great Jewish humanists one of the great
Jewish teachers in this country Leon
Kass who taught at University of Chicago
for many decades I just said to me the
other day that one effect pc's here our
hopes for here has seen it a little bit
is the the rehumanize
our public space and that you know and
depending on where you live in the
country admittedly but you can walk down
the street and no one will make eye
contact no acknowledge each other and
now you can have two people pass by and
the wearing masks and they'll be wearing
gloves and someone will be you know
walking out of their way to keep 6 feet
apart and yet they'll make eye contact
or maybe if there's no masks you'll see
a smile or something like that because
there's something of the sense that
we're all in it together and I think we
can all hope for in a world in which we
all have iPods either or our air buds
either because we're afraid of our own
thoughts or because we don't want to
interact with other people this
situation may be something where the
isolation can actually help us rebuild
human connections thanks Danielle I'd
love to ask you all about trust and that
Trust is vital for leadership in really
any realm whether it's religious
political or organizational and by many
measures many faith communities have
lost credibility and Trust in recent
years for a whole variety of reasons I
wanted to ask you what you saw as the
opportunities for the restoration of
trust through our response as members of
a community of faith to this pandemic
well the you know in the Quran it says
that the human being was created in a
state of anxiety and we see that with
the child when it first comes in the
world it was in the nice womb everything
was wonderful nice temperature the food
was coming in and suddenly it's in this
terrifying place but then the breast
comes and the child's at peace and one
of the things that that I used to do
with my children I have five boys but I
used to throw them up in the air and and
they would love it until it got to the
point where gravity came in and they and
they and they well it was always acting
on but the point when they right before
they came down they would suddenly be in
this complete panic then when they saw
they were coming back to me they they
they kind of suddenly became happy and
cheerful again and and times like these
are those moments of panic where you
have to remind yourself that we're in
good hands and and that is trust in God
and I think for people of faith this is
really our practice and I know Robby and
and and dr. Cornell I'm sure the rabbi
people that practice their faith every
day that's the exercise for times like
these just like an athlete exercises for
the competition these are the times when
when our faith is tested and and that's
why the preparation is so important and
so for people who who don't have a
practice I think these can become very
very difficult times but trusting God
it's every day we our prophet said if
you wake up in the morning don't expect
to see the evening and if you go to
sleep at night don't expect to see the
morning because we're all in a state of
uncertainty and and and the point the
readiness is Hamlet said is all the
point is is to be vigilant and be be
aware that life is temporal and it's
very fragile and we have to really
appreciate it while we have it be
grateful for it and honor it and honor
it in others I mean my own tradition
always talked about by your fruits you
shall know them
and fruits of love have to do with joy
it has to do with kindness and sweetness
it has to do with service to the weak
and vulnerable and so one of the reasons
why so many have lost trust in
leadership political leadership economic
leadership in this case we'll talk about
religious leadership is because when
they look at the fruit they see too much
obsession with worldly success too much
obsession with status can with up
session with money to what accommodation
to do unjust status close and so the
hunger for love the hunger for justice
remained unfulfilled
so we people end up pressing with
spiritual malnutrition and in a moment
in which we can now at our best prove
ourselves by our fault
and say look there are in fact Jews
Muslims Catholics Protestants we can say
the same thing about Buddhists and
Confucian followers and Hindus at their
best and so forth who are concerned
about something other than the dominant
ways of the world and whether we need
this challenge of course is still an
open question but it becomes an occasion
for us to actually show these genuine
fruits of our trusting God our love of
justice are concerned about mercy our
willingness to acknowledge when we're
wrong and most importantly the way in
which we can fuse forms of solidarity
rooted in a love that it's bigger than
each and every one of you know cornellà
and I professor West and I teach
together and it's a great blessing
certainly in my life our teaching
together has been such a wonder if my
life - my life - but but you know
teaching at Harvard and at Princeton we
have an opportunity to teach
extraordinary students that are so
gifted so brilliant so accomplished and
they're great kids they really are good
kids but I would say in Cornell you can
tell me whether the strikes you
correct based on your experience
certainly my experience is perhaps the
most important thing we do is to teach
them to question what they are placing
the emphasis on the in their lives on at
the moment they've got bright futures
ahead of them the world is their oyster
so very often they are focused on what
David Brooks calls the CV values the
curriculum vitae values academic success
good grades a career prospect perhaps
going on to Goldman Sachs or Morgan
Stanley getting going on to Harvard Law
School and to cravats Wayne and more the
status the prestige that comes with that
of course the money the compensation
that that comes with that now as brother
less than I say to students those things
are not bad we're not asking you to
throw them away
in fact Harvard and Princeton in places
like that rather depend on your going
out and being very successful and making
a lot of money and giving a percentage
of it back to prints that are Harvard
and yet those we need to remind our
students we do remind our students I
think the most important thing we do
really is remind them those CV values
are secondary they matter but they don't
ultimately matter the things that matter
more our faith family virtue solidarity
with others compassion what David Brooks
calls the I believe I remember calling
him correctly tombstone virtues uh and
it's not too early even as a 19 year old
or 23 year old it's not too early to be
thinking as you proceed through life and
making your judgments about what you're
gonna do in life and where you're gonna
place the emphasis in life it's not too
early even at those tender ages to be
thinking what against the horizon of my
death which will come sooner rather than
later life on Earth is short
but in light of that horizon should I
consider important and I think if we get
people focused on that on the tombstone
virtues ultimately what matters then
they will see that it's not so much
money it's not so much power it's not so
much influence or prestige status it is
faith it is family
it is solidarity with those or others it
is friendship
it is compassion it is reaching out to
those who are in need it's serving those
are what really matter before we turn to
audience questions I want to ask each of
you about love one of the callings of
the believer is to embody and to reflect
the love of God for his creation for our
neighbors what opportunities do you see
from your own faith perspective and
embodying that loved to our neighbors at
this time well we could certainly see in
my community just an unbelievable
outpouring of what we call cresset or
loving kindness we're supposed to
supposed to mimic the loving kindness
that God displays to us an outpouring of
love to our fellow neighbors there's a
there's a website I think it's I'm not
advertising on it but I think it's
Corona I said that went up right away
which allowed people in a lot of New
York metro area communities you go there
and they they click on a link that puts
them in a whatsapp group but it's
pairing people who have needs that
people can meet the needs and the the
speed with which the community has
snapped into action with Passover coming
which adds a whole other level of need
on top of ordinarily it's just
remarkable but I do also want to mention
that in the context of what chef Youssef
said a few moments ago about the way our
kind of our everyday religious lives I
don't get the way you said it just right
but our everyday religious lives are
training for moments like these I think
one of the things we've seen which is
obvious and obvious in any crisis is
that you don't build community in the
crisis that you need that religious
communities and all your communities
need to think about the importance
nations local communities a building
community all along I mean it is true
that people are called
- they're better angels in times of
crisis people step outside of themselves
and do extraordinary things but to
really meet the day-to-day needs of
everyone to make sure people are our
housed and fed and clothed and taken
care of just in all the ways all the
ways you don't even think of until the
crisis hits it's really important that
there be very strong communities in
place myself as a as an Orthodox Jew
we're blessed to have something
Catholics had a long time ago before
parishes went suburban but we all
because we can't drive on the Sabbath we
all have to live within walking distance
on the synagogue which means I'm that I
and my fellow congregants all live
within walking distance of each other
now don't do a lot of good now and we
can't you know can't go over to each
other's houses like this but it does
mean that so many people are close at
hand you know to check on neighbors and
to help check on neighbors remotely and
to help them you know dropping packages
at the door or whatever it is and just
you know that's that's the kind of thing
that is a blessing because of our
Sabbath but more broadly the very very
close knit community that we live in
also means that in times of crisis thank
God people are are already so well
connected and really have a spirit of
giving on that that's extremely
beneficial you know building on what the
daniel said doing moving toward
spiritual giant like Rabbi Abraham
Joshua Heschel that the charity and the
philanthropy that we are seeing is a
marvelous thing but it's not the same as
the relation of HESA to the justice that
amos talks about and it seems to me part
of the genius of scripture and this is
from which we Christians and Muslims
flow is this notion of acknowledging how
catastrophe was always already in place
before we even come to terms with the
next catastrophe because justice has to
do with the way things are structured
not just in a society but the way our
soul
structured in such a way that the Hesed
is not at the center of the way at all
something else is there and that's where
we're wrestling with that Civil War
within each and every one of us would
degreed and the status and the
indifference and the callousness and so
forth and so I think even in this
situation part of the anxiety and the
insecurity has to do with the fact that
you know we got almost 40 percent of our
fellow citizens who live check to check
and so once they can't go to work
there's nothing to fall back on
we got a healthcare system that has not
been able to provide for everybody for a
significant number of us and that's well
but it feels much more tired to market
in it ought to be public good and common
good and these are political and
ideological discussions that we have a
brother Robby and I go back and forth in
and against a loving way clinics but I
think this is also what it needs to take
seriously these the prophetic legacy of
truth well I think it's important to
remember I mean my grandfather told me
about the 1906 earthquake which he lived
through the 1918 flu epidemic the
depression World War one and two I think
we've had a long run here in the West
and and I think our our parents and
grandparents had seen a lot more of
these types of crises but around the
world there aren't healthcare systems I
lived with Bedouins in West Africa if
you got sick there was no 911 to call
you either got well or he died and I and
I think we have to be immensely grateful
because we've got weaker internment
camps we've got the Kashmir ease in shut
down I mean there's a lot of places
where the suffering this is not new to
them that what we're going through you
know is far less than what many many
places have been going through for quite
some time and many of us have been blind
to it so I think it's a time also to
remind ourselves I think this is a great
opportunity one to recognize how out of
balance we are in our lives
I think people don't realize just how
stressful a lot of modern life is in the
United States this is a time to really
it's like I told a rabbi a friend of
mine alone who called me the other day
that this is like a two-month Sabbath
for us so I mean there really is
something to think deeply about I want
to respond to Cherise question about
love and this is an issue that again
comes up in the teaching that Cornell
and I do together it's very clear that
people today we certainly see it in our
students when they hear the word love
word love when they think about love
when they use the term love tend to
reduce love to its emotional component
they see love as emotional fundamentally
a feeling and emotion and there is an
effect of dimension to loving that's
that's certainly true but what we try to
teach our students and show our students
is that that's an impoverished view of
love it's reflective of I think the kind
of spiritual blackout that culturally we
have been experiencing for quite some
time that Cornell referred to love
properly understood CS Lewis teaches us
this in his wonderful book the four
loves love properly understood is more
fundamentally volitional than it is
emotional as affective content but even
more fundamentally it's volitional it is
the act of willing of the good of the
other for the sake of the other love is
an activity it's a verb it's not just a
feeling and it's hard to get through to
people today with that because we've
become so accustomed in our spiritual
condition our impoverished spiritual
condition the thinking of love is
fundamentally just a feeling now true
love the act of bullying is good or the
other for the sake of the other means
reaching out to people reaching out yes
it's good to contribute money and I hope
that everyone is
whether you're contributing to a
particular person who's in need perhaps
through one of the online GoFundMe type
options that that they have I know
individual people have been reaching out
for help and and some of us have been
trying to help individual people or
contributing money to philanthropic
organizations which may even be very
large but that do a lot of good and one
of the things of course we try to do is
to identify the right ones where the
money's used well to actually meet human
needs and you know there that it's
important not to just you know give
money to anybody who asks for money
because you don't know whether it's
actually going to get to the people in
need but even more important than that I
think is calling somebody up who could
use a phone call because they're in
isolation or send an email message
establish human contact money's good and
money's important and especially for
people who living check to check money
is very important and the work being
done by the great philanthropist as well
as a go fund me accounts all that's
really important but let's not forget
that if we're really actively willing
the good of the other for the sake of
the other we're not just in a kind of
impersonal way contributing this
fungible good money
we're actually reaching out there may be
a neighbor it could be an elderly
neighbor who's living on her own we we
have the neighbors on each side of us
have to be having both to be elderly
widows you McCall you know reach out to
them see if they need anything maybe
could use a little help they probably
don't need the help
they probably need a voice somebody to
talk to have a conversation there may be
somebody that you haven't been in touch
with for a very very long time
you've been meaning to make that phone
call are you been meaning to send the
email message and be in touch well then
we have a little extra time most of us
why not take advantage of that so make
the love really effective in fact yeah
just very briefly I think one thing that
brings us back to the question of
religious communities is that religion
whether West had mentioned you know the
problem of people living paycheck to
paycheck well a one thing that
communities can do really well and often
do
and when it's not a huge crisis where
you know where so many people are
unemployed but if someone a community
loses the job and it's living paycheck
to paycheck and the community steps in
and make sure those bills can be paid in
certainly religious communities in
America aren't the only groups that do
something like that but I would hazard a
guess that religious communities that
churches synagogues and mosques and
others are the best at doing that of
rallying together to meet the needs of
people in times of need in times of
crisis and again those communities need
to be in place before the community
happened before the crisis happens as I
mentioned but it's really it shows the
power of religious communities in times
of crisis like this one they can be the
first responders to the non-medical
needs as you might know you won't be
surprised to hear that the questions
have been piling up so we're gonna turn
our attention this last half hour to
asking some of the questions that are
coming in over the transom I see there's
like quite a long list of questions so
we'll try to get through what we can the
first question comes to us my question
is how to stay spiritually motivated
during long periods of isolation as we
so often derive spiritual strength from
the presence of others who wants to
tackle that I defer to you doctor well
you couldn't okay no but I think just
based on my own very less than
imaginative example that I have tried to
connect both with family and family and
friends we just had senator Isaac
Robinson and died on Monday as a result
of this virus he'd invited me and Danny
Glover out to Detroit just three weeks
ago for brother Bernie's campaign we
didn't have an event with him and so
this notion of the ways of which we are
connected and we never know just how
intense the interdependence he is and so
you we have to reach out and lift up
people's names who have already been
taken away
and try to be in solidarity with the
folk who have to deal with those losses
then I listen to Beethoven opens 1/35
the greatest dream quartet the history
of classical musical it occurred as
Mayfield and Aretha listened to Brahms
does a piano concerto number two I find
myself reading because I have so much
I'm now it used to be just two hours a
night I can put in five hours a night so
I can commune with Shakespeare I can
commune with Toni Morrison I can compare
them with check off in ways that I've
been hungry to do for a long time so in
that sense there's ways in which we can
sustain community and solidarity even
though it's not always tied to physical
proximity this question is for honza who
our listener writes as a Muslim prayers
and especially Friday prayers were
attendance at which is under normal
circumstances and obligation for most
Muslims the close proximity of
worshipers makes the spread of
coronavirus and near certainty can hamza
use of comment honest about this in
times like this it's it's permitted to
to cancel because preservation of life
is one of the five universal with
actually Robbie George wrote about this
in a wonderful essay about the purposes
of religion and he pointed out that
preservation of life which concurs with
our tradition is one of the most
important and fundamental ideas and and
also that in for the greater good the
individual will sacrifice so for Muslims
now most of the countries are saying not
to congregate there are some scholars
there's always going to be difference of
opinion like the Jewish tradition you
get three rabbis or three Imams you have
four opinions truth to that so there are
some dissenters that want people to go
to Juma but we the Quran says ask X
birds and so in this case we have to
defer religiously to the epidemiologists
who are telling us what to do this one I
think is for Danielle and Robbie or any
of the presenters concerned with
religious liberty impact as a result of
current restrictions on gathering in
other words since religious gatherings
have been restricted by the current
situation
well governments now find other quote
reasonable reasons to restrict religious
gatherings in the future well so those
are certainly two separate questions one
is what is the what is the legal status
of restrictions that we have now and is
this a danger for the future I'll take
the second one first and I guess partly
acknowledge the premise of the question
that we do have to be really careful
emergency times call for emergency
measures but they're not good precedence
you know we saw this in the debate over
the stimulus and there may be that the
bailout whatever you want to call the
big bill but people said wait a second I
thought you weren't in favor of big
government spending and you know whoever
they were saying whichever people they
were saying that and I said well I'm not
but this is an exceptional emergency and
requires exceptional measures that I
ordinarily would approve of and so I
think there is room for those kinds of
things I that doesn't rule on all of
technologies but it also means that you
have to recognize that that doesn't set
a precedent for other things and so we
have to be very vigilant and we have to
be very vigilant with all of our rights
and and you know all of our rights have
qualifications there's freedom of the
press but the press can't print nuclear
secrets you know is that going to be and
that's always true is that going to be
an excuse for the government to limit
freedom of the press at other times well
it could be and so we have to be
vigilant and I would add that we have to
visually not book just book I'll do
values of freedom but because we value
the underlying good that the freedom is
protecting religious freedom isn't good
ultimately because because we believe
people should be allowed to do whatever
the heck they want our religious freedom
is ultimately good because religion is
good it's good for the people who
practice it and it's good for the
country in which it's practiced in so
many ways that we don't have time to get
into now and and if we don't value
underlying good then when the freedom is
restricted under special circumstances
it's much easier for those quote unquote
reasonable terms to be extended
elsewhere
the first question about out of will
probably already gone on too long but is
that I think there needs to be a very
careful balance on one hand the
government absolutely has the right to
regulate for public health especially
extreme situations like this but I think
the government needs to and what has
traditionally been understood as a fall
for a compelling reason which certainly
we have here and with least restrictive
means so the government should go as far
as it needs to go but no further and
make sure that it's not trembling on the
ability of religion to practice as much
as I can without endangering there are
issues here this is a serious business
and I think it has to be handled
carefully and handled properly
Danielle's right the standard in our law
and I think the morally correct standard
is what sometimes called the compelling
state interest least restrictive means
test the law must be a neutral law of
general applicability it has to apply to
all institutions equally it cannot
single out religious institutions or the
institutions of a particular religion
for special restrictions that's
discriminatory that's wrong that's
illegal but with respect to general
neutral laws neutral laws of general
applicability government can restrict
practice including religious practice
incidentally where the interest is
compelling and certainly the prevention
of life-threatening disease is a
compelling state interest and using as
daniel said the least restrictive means
in other words if there are ways of
pursuing or protecting that compelling
state interest short of restricting
religious liberty then we have to prefer
those means to the means that would
involve restricting religious liberty
but if there are another me no other
means then yes you can say that
institutions including churches that
aren't themselves institutions that
aren't themselves in the business of
doing the life-saving like hospitals and
so forth doing hospital not elective
procedures of course but life-preserving
procedures
then the government can legitimately
place that restriction and churches
should observe it now there's you know
there's questions about whether it's
really neutral whether everything's
being handled in an even-handed way
they're serious questions in some states
where the governors have allowed
abortion clinics to continue to operate
but not allow churches to continue to
operate well that's going to raise some
very serious questions about whether we
really have neutrality here a general
neutral law and there is the question of
whether this could then be abused
whether precedents could be said that
are then abused by people who are not
too sensitive or concerned about or
respectful of religious liberty to
trample religious liberty the mayor of
New York said something very very
unfortunate when he threatened to
permanently close synagogues that
violated his order to to not hold
services I mean it's one thing to say
you know we're going to subject you to
exactly the same punishments under the
law that other institutions would be
subjected to if they violated this
neutral law of general applicability
it's another thing to go so far as to
say we're gonna threaten so we're going
to actually close you down forever if
you fail to comply or if you breach this
this this rule so this is next question
I'll direct to Cornell and then whoever
else would like to jump in that would be
great a questioner asked koban 19 has
exposed a lot of economic divisions in
new ways such as the allocation of
resources and exposure examples
including those who can access testing
typically those with wealth and better
healthcare and between those who can
stay home with a salary and those who
have to go out to make a minimum wage
trunk and faith communities address this
point of pain and division without
divulging in two political parties or
tropes well it's a wonderful question I
think we've touched it touched on it in
a number of different ways I think again
though we must always put a primacy on
the moral and the spiritual so we don't
degenerate into narrow partisan on
noise-making and what I mean by this is
that this this crisis is the kind of
crisis that on the one hand
to acknowledge our common humanity and
allow us to see very clearly the
hierarchies in place the economic
hierarchy the racial hierarchy the
gender hierarchies and so forth the
regional hierarchies Anna as was pointed
out the international context in which
America visa the other countries given
our richness and given our resources we
can see those kinds of hierarchies as
well so the question becomes how do we
become more morally and spiritually
vigilant to generate some political
consequences and by political I'm not
talking about democratic republic apart
I got it could you come over I'm talking
about Public Interest common good forms
of solidarity that have moral content
and spiritual substance to them that's
the only way to keep alive fragile
experiments and debacles there's no
democracy of was talking about without
healthy public life common good moral
and spiritual dimensions that keep track
of our humanity as opposed to other
identities that we may have and so I
think this is a matter of raising our
voices it's a matter of trying to forge
conversations discourses for most forces
and institutions that can't just I'm a
sea of the moral and spiritual as it
connects to the least of these as it
connects to often widowed fatherless
motherless and so forth so we've had two
or three people riding with a question
about what you were reading or
recommending for reading in these times
of isolation we'd love to hear from each
of you right now well I have a
scriptural amount that I read every day
just as a practice I continue to do that
like I said I read a book on the virtues
or the benefits of plague which was very
interesting and by a man who'd lived
through a few plagues
I'm also rereading some Jane Austen
right now she's she's a very firm
she's an analogical writer she's she's a
deeply spiritual writer a lot of people
miss that aspect of gain but so and then
I just reread finished Moby Dick again
which was an incredibly rewarding
experience I think people wanted one of
the tragedies of having to read things
in high school and colleges that you're
really not ready for them so it's very
important to read them when you have
enough life experience and Moby Dick was
a complete eye opener for me about the
very things with dr. Cornell was talking
about earlier about the hierarchy and
social injustice and and this madness
that the head of this ship which is
going to take everybody to destruction
and I found out because I want to know
where he got the name Moby Dick and I
actually found out that it was after
Austin Beale who was who had a ship
called the Moby Dick and he was
smuggling slaves on this ship out of out
of the south and he was doing this in
the 1850s in Boston so I thought that
was a shame can I just make an on with
this I I just want to make a correction
I think dr. Cornel mentioned Islam with
the idea of being angry at God and I
just I just wanted to say that in our
tradition there's a verse in the Quran
God will not be asked about what God
does but you will be asked about what
you do so as Muslim devout Muslims never
question the judgment of God or the
circumstances that God puts us in we're
just told to respond in the best way
no no I appreciate that though brother
that that's one of the differences
between these precious Muslims and we we
we wanna left-wing of the Reformation
Baptist you know got a whole lot of feel
you know I on readings if I can jump in
on on readings Thomas's reference to
Moby Dick just reminds me that gosh this
is a great opportunity to do something
that many of us have wanted to do for a
long time but didn't think we have the
time which is take on a big reading
project like Moby Dick that's a big
project to read Moby Dick or one of the
great Russian novels right probably
they're probably a lot of people out
there who know they should at some point
read something by Dostoyevsky or perhaps
one of the greats so some instant novels
there's something by tolls for but just
don't have the time to do something like
that well maybe now's the opportunity is
in a certain sense it's a gift the
opportunity to to do that to take on a
project like that I was saying to an
interviewer for the Catholic News Agency
recently in a similar vein now's the
time to do things that you've always
wanted to do or take up something you've
always wanted to take up but I've been
putting off ever had time maybe you'd
really like to take piano lessons now
you can't actually go to a teacher or
have a teacher come to you but guess
what in this age of the Internet
there are wonder I'm a musician myself
there are wonderful lessons for any
instrument you can think of online you
can learn piano with online lessons or
guitar or banjo or whatever it is you
offering Angeles yeah yeah I'll give you
that and then if I can go back just very
quickly to an earlier question Cherie
about what do we do with our time
spiritual sustenance let's not forget
that in all of our traditions there are
spiritual practices there are spiritual
practices that are promoted like in
Catholicism the saying of the rose or
or certain prayers or meditations maybe
maybe many of us don't do those on a
regular basis as much as we would like
to well now is a time to do that also if
I could just urge something for
religious folk out there you probably
have a prayer list a list of people
you're praying for because they're
especially close to you your children
your grandparents or because they're
people you know or in need perhaps
they're recently bereaved or they're
suffering from an illness or an
infirmity of some sort or they have a
special cause or something that's coming
up in their lives and you're praying for
them because of that they're they've got
a got a bar exam to pass or they are
trying to finish school but because
we're a limited time you know the the
prayer list has to be fairly fairly
short we rotate people on or often now's
the time you can actually expand your
prayer list right you can you can take
the time to to pray by name for more
people than you ordinarily what you can
take up each other's cause us in prayer
that's just something occurred to me
that it would be nice for us all to do
yeah I know what are you reading almost
hoping you wouldn't ask me I have an
embarrassing confession but since we're
here with our eleven hundred closest
friends yeah twenty-six hundred closest
friends and friends so dear that they
may have taken time out of Tiger King to
join us so I'll say that the truth is I
I don't have any big reading projects
right now we have thank God so far two
very small children a two-year-old and
the 10 month old in that occasion also
to thank my dear wife who's doing
overtime childcare right now so I could
be here but you know in addition to that
I'm trying to steal every moments I can
to work on my own writing a book not
related to this I'm trying to finish but
I I do admit that in between all of that
and the little extra moments I'm
stealing from the quarantine beyond the
normal duties I've been trying to read
as much as I can about the coronavirus
to be honest I mean I'm interested in
the medical and the scientific aspect
from the debates that are going on now
but also I mean this is you know one way
or another this is something that's
going to stay with us for a while
lots of ramifications and a lot of
articles about the political economic
and social consequences of the of the
pandemic and of the crisis though my
go-to place I if I may since we're
naming names of the Witherspoon
Institute in Princeton has a website a
journal called public discourse and it's
an amazing resource during these weeks
for articles on the humane aspect of the
crisis about what it means to be a human
being at a time like this and to live
through it as well as things relate to
economics and politics and so on that's
just that's just one source but of
course the Internet has as many good
articles and you know for someone like
me who who teaches in a political
science department at his job it is to
think about the way we organize the
world and the way we live together in
communities you know I think about that
professionally it's a really good
opportunity to take these extra moments
to think deeply about what this crisis
means for us as a society in addition to
you know how to stay safe when I go to
the grocery store and all of that on
that dr. George's about prayer I
personally have a lot of friends who are
physicians I was once a registered nurse
so I know what it's like I worked in
intensive care and then ER in burn unit
so I think to pray for our first the
people my own son is is working in an
ambulance taking older people so he
worries about just being a you know
infecting anybody so I think praying for
these people because they really are the
heroes in this situation and dr. Aisha
Subhani who dr. George knows I mean he's
in some of her colleagues to come just
because they've been expired
yeah and just keeping them in it just
you know in our hearts and prayers
because they really are extraordinary
people many of them are going above and
beyond and and so praying for them I
think means a lot to them as well as
hopefully God hears our prayers yes
that's so that's so important Tom so
thank you for bringing that out and
while we're at it let's pray for anybody
who's out there on the
lines taking risks this this includes
you know the the people who are at the
checkout counter in the grocery stores
because the grocery stores are still
operating sanitation workers clergy
anybody who doesn't have the luxury
because of their vocation doesn't have
the luxury that I for example happen
just being able to stay in my house and
occasionally go out for a nice walk in
the in the open air there are people out
there who have to have human contact
because they're serving human needs and
gosh do they deserve and need or prayers
I think you thought the series point
above read reading as a form of
empowerment not just individually but
allowing us to use our imaginations in
such a way that we are not paralyzed in
wheel when it comes to serving others
when it comes to forging bonds of
solidarity and this is the kind of thing
that Bill O'Reilly and I have talked
together for 15 years Paideia the deep
education tied to reading so that when
somebody is invoked Melville and
brightly throne I just haven't be greedy
not there be a chart so great lectures
1950 on on a hat the second section the
first sections on Don Quixote
it's the enchant fleur that when you
read a mail real or Cervantes when you
read hell God adds up the meaning of
Shakespeare the greatest lectures
probably in the history of the United
States on the greatest Bardon English
language from swath for brother Robert
is from as well more than 30 years
teaching it allows more boy died that
these are ways of actually allowing us
to become more fortified given the
grimness that were wrestling with
because these profound tech have already
provided in their own context ways of
understanding engaging overwhelming
catastrophe and all of us form desk
dread despair disappointment this is
chance and what have you and so I think
your question to those system should be
about reading it's very important very
important indeed one of my teachers
Mortimer Adler
used to say that reading is the most
revolutionary act so we have 78 it looks
like questions lined up and time is
running out so what I want to try to do
is combine two particularly good ones
into one last question you can address
it either one that you want but both
really had to do with isolation one
listener asked how can we handle our
grief in response to the peculiar way we
are dying or a loved ones are dying
another person asks what about our
upcoming religious festivals how does
one recognize the most important
liturgies which of course are embodied
in person practices or our faith under
these circumstances so we'd love to hear
from each of you on either question as
we wrap this up Robbie
you'll actually start us off yes well we
can pray together again this technology
makes that possible
just to give you one example there are
countless out there those of us who are
in the Christian community both
Protestant and Catholic who in be Stern
Orthodox who are associated with the
politics department at Princeton and the
James Madison program which I have the
honor of directing I got together at
noon every Tuesday for prayer session
and one of the things we do at the
beginning of each of the sessions is
have a reading from the Psalms it's
become our custom to have the great
Civil War historian Alan gales Oh who's
a new member of the Princeton community
we're so delighted to have him who is
very distinguished scholar of Lincoln in
the Civil War read us a psalm select a
psalm and read us a psalm and that's a
great comfort a because the Psalms are
such powerful inspirers of hope and
trust in God that's ultimately what they
are about and they're so beautiful the
Psalms indeed they are so beautiful that
it's very uplifting it's it's
spiritually enriching just to hear them
read and to contemplate them and to
meditate on them and to do it as a group
we can't be together physically but we
can be together virtually and of course
faith communities in all the traditions
are getting together masses for
Catholics are being live-streamed I
think that's more complicated at least
with Sabbath services for the Jewish
tradition because of the use of
technology I think Hamza mentioned did
you mention Hamza that there's some use
of technology to enable Muslims to pray
together surely that's happening in
other traditions as well so I think
that's something important that we can
all do and as far as the desolation is
concerned you cannot beat the zones
yes yes yes yes I think I think again I
love the arts I think of Dorothy love
coats up and listening to I'm just
holding on and I won't let go my faith
she and the Harman axis classic text
I've been living to Tchaikovsky's
Symphony number six the pathetique one
of the saddest and grimace works of the
classical music that we that we know
think of spiritual by Coltrane 1961 all
of these are works of art in the musical
way that helped us come to terms with
our grief but we just want to make sure
that grief does not become so
melancholic that it becomes something we
can never get a distance from we want to
go through the stages of mourning so in
the end we can come out fortify but if