Communities of Faith and Covid-19

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Event Name: Communities of Faith and Covid-19
Transcription Date:Transcription Modified Date: 10/27/2021
Transcript Version: 1


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another thing to go so far as to

say we're gonna threaten so we're going

to actually close you down forever if

you fail to comply or if you breach this

this this rule so this is next question

I'll direct to Cornell and then whoever

else would like to jump in that would be

great a questioner asked koban 19 has

exposed a lot of economic divisions in

new ways such as the allocation of

resources and exposure examples

including those who can access testing

typically those with wealth and better

healthcare and between those who can

stay home with a salary and those who

have to go out to make a minimum wage

trunk and faith communities address this

point of pain and division without

divulging in two political parties or

tropes well it's a wonderful question I

think we've touched it touched on it in

a number of different ways I think again

though we must always put a primacy on

the moral and the spiritual so we don't

degenerate into narrow partisan on

noise-making and what I mean by this is

that this this crisis is the kind of

crisis that on the one hand

to acknowledge our common humanity and

allow us to see very clearly the

hierarchies in place the economic

hierarchy the racial hierarchy the

gender hierarchies and so forth the

regional hierarchies Anna as was pointed

out the international context in which

America visa the other countries given

our richness and given our resources we

can see those kinds of hierarchies as

well so the question becomes how do we

become more morally and spiritually

vigilant to generate some political

consequences and by political I'm not

talking about democratic republic apart

I got it could you come over I'm talking

about Public Interest common good forms

of solidarity that have moral content

and spiritual substance to them that's

the only way to keep alive fragile

experiments and debacles there's no

democracy of was talking about without

healthy public life common good moral

and spiritual dimensions that keep track

of our humanity as opposed to other

identities that we may have and so I

think this is a matter of raising our

voices it's a matter of trying to forge

conversations discourses for most forces

and institutions that can't just I'm a

sea of the moral and spiritual as it

connects to the least of these as it

connects to often widowed fatherless

motherless and so forth so we've had two

or three people riding with a question

about what you were reading or

recommending for reading in these times

of isolation we'd love to hear from each

of you right now well I have a

scriptural amount that I read every day

just as a practice I continue to do that

like I said I read a book on the virtues

or the benefits of plague which was very

interesting and by a man who'd lived

through a few plagues

I'm also rereading some Jane Austen

right now she's she's a very firm

she's an analogical writer she's she's a

deeply spiritual writer a lot of people

miss that aspect of gain but so and then

I just reread finished Moby Dick again

which was an incredibly rewarding

experience I think people wanted one of

the tragedies of having to read things

in high school and colleges that you're

really not ready for them so it's very

important to read them when you have

enough life experience and Moby Dick was

a complete eye opener for me about the

very things with dr. Cornell was talking

about earlier about the hierarchy and

social injustice and and this madness

that the head of this ship which is

going to take everybody to destruction

and I found out because I want to know

where he got the name Moby Dick and I

actually found out that it was after

Austin Beale who was who had a ship

called the Moby Dick and he was

smuggling slaves on this ship out of out

of the south and he was doing this in

the 1850s in Boston so I thought that

was a shame can I just make an on with

this I I just want to make a correction

I think dr. Cornel mentioned Islam with

the idea of being angry at God and I

just I just wanted to say that in our

tradition there's a verse in the Quran

God will not be asked about what God

does but you will be asked about what

you do so as Muslim devout Muslims never

question the judgment of God or the

circumstances that God puts us in we're

just told to respond in the best way

no no I appreciate that though brother

that that's one of the differences

between these precious Muslims and we we

we wanna left-wing of the Reformation

Baptist you know got a whole lot of feel

you know I on readings if I can jump in

on on readings Thomas's reference to

Moby Dick just reminds me that gosh this

is a great opportunity to do something

that many of us have wanted to do for a

long time but didn't think we have the

time which is take on a big reading

project like Moby Dick that's a big

project to read Moby Dick or one of the

great Russian novels right probably

they're probably a lot of people out

there who know they should at some point

read something by Dostoyevsky or perhaps

one of the greats so some instant novels

there's something by tolls for but just

don't have the time to do something like

that well maybe now's the opportunity is

in a certain sense it's a gift the

opportunity to to do that to take on a

project like that I was saying to an

interviewer for the Catholic News Agency

recently in a similar vein now's the

time to do things that you've always

wanted to do or take up something you've

always wanted to take up but I've been

putting off ever had time maybe you'd

really like to take piano lessons now

you can't actually go to a teacher or

have a teacher come to you but guess

what in this age of the Internet

there are wonder I'm a musician myself

there are wonderful lessons for any

instrument you can think of online you

can learn piano with online lessons or

guitar or banjo or whatever it is you

offering Angeles yeah yeah I'll give you

that and then if I can go back just very

quickly to an earlier question Cherie

about what do we do with our time

spiritual sustenance let's not forget

that in all of our traditions there are

spiritual practices there are spiritual

practices that are promoted like in

Catholicism the saying of the rose or

or certain prayers or meditations maybe

maybe many of us don't do those on a

regular basis as much as we would like

to well now is a time to do that also if

I could just urge something for

religious folk out there you probably

have a prayer list a list of people

you're praying for because they're

especially close to you your children

your grandparents or because they're

people you know or in need perhaps

they're recently bereaved or they're

suffering from an illness or an

infirmity of some sort or they have a

special cause or something that's coming

up in their lives and you're praying for

them because of that they're they've got

a got a bar exam to pass or they are

trying to finish school but because

we're a limited time you know the the

prayer list has to be fairly fairly

short we rotate people on or often now's

the time you can actually expand your

prayer list right you can you can take

the time to to pray by name for more

people than you ordinarily what you can

take up each other's cause us in prayer

that's just something occurred to me

that it would be nice for us all to do

yeah I know what are you reading almost

hoping you wouldn't ask me I have an

embarrassing confession but since we're

here with our eleven hundred closest

friends yeah twenty-six hundred closest

friends and friends so dear that they

may have taken time out of Tiger King to

join us so I'll say that the truth is I

I don't have any big reading projects

right now we have thank God so far two

very small children a two-year-old and

the 10 month old in that occasion also

to thank my dear wife who's doing

overtime childcare right now so I could

be here but you know in addition to that

I'm trying to steal every moments I can

to work on my own writing a book not

related to this I'm trying to finish but

I I do admit that in between all of that

and the little extra moments I'm

stealing from the quarantine beyond the

normal duties I've been trying to read

as much as I can about the coronavirus

to be honest I mean I'm interested in

the medical and the scientific aspect

from the debates that are going on now

but also I mean this is you know one way

or another this is something that's

going to stay with us for a while

lots of ramifications and a lot of

articles about the political economic

and social consequences of the of the

pandemic and of the crisis though my

go-to place I if I may since we're

naming names of the Witherspoon

Institute in Princeton has a website a

journal called public discourse and it's

an amazing resource during these weeks

for articles on the humane aspect of the

crisis about what it means to be a human

being at a time like this and to live

through it as well as things relate to

economics and politics and so on that's

just that's just one source but of

course the Internet has as many good

articles and you know for someone like

me who who teaches in a political

science department at his job it is to

think about the way we organize the

world and the way we live together in

communities you know I think about that

professionally it's a really good

opportunity to take these extra moments

to think deeply about what this crisis

means for us as a society in addition to

you know how to stay safe when I go to

the grocery store and all of that on

that dr. George's about prayer I

personally have a lot of friends who are

physicians I was once a registered nurse

so I know what it's like I worked in

intensive care and then ER in burn unit

so I think to pray for our first the

people my own son is is working in an

ambulance taking older people so he

worries about just being a you know

infecting anybody so I think praying for

these people because they really are the

heroes in this situation and dr. Aisha

Subhani who dr. George knows I mean he's

in some of her colleagues to come just

because they've been expired

yeah and just keeping them in it just

you know in our hearts and prayers

because they really are extraordinary

people many of them are going above and

beyond and and so praying for them I

think means a lot to them as well as

hopefully God hears our prayers yes

that's so that's so important Tom so

thank you for bringing that out and

while we're at it let's pray for anybody

who's out there on the

lines taking risks this this includes

you know the the people who are at the

checkout counter in the grocery stores

because the grocery stores are still

operating sanitation workers clergy

anybody who doesn't have the luxury

because of their vocation doesn't have

the luxury that I for example happen

just being able to stay in my house and

occasionally go out for a nice walk in

the in the open air there are people out

there who have to have human contact

because they're serving human needs and

gosh do they deserve and need or prayers

I think you thought the series point

above read reading as a form of

empowerment not just individually but

allowing us to use our imaginations in

such a way that we are not paralyzed in

wheel when it comes to serving others

when it comes to forging bonds of

solidarity and this is the kind of thing

that Bill O'Reilly and I have talked

together for 15 years Paideia the deep

education tied to reading so that when

somebody is invoked Melville and

brightly throne I just haven't be greedy

not there be a chart so great lectures

1950 on on a hat the second section the

first sections on Don Quixote

it's the enchant fleur that when you

read a mail real or Cervantes when you

read hell God adds up the meaning of

Shakespeare the greatest lectures

probably in the history of the United

States on the greatest Bardon English

language from swath for brother Robert

is from as well more than 30 years

teaching it allows more boy died that

these are ways of actually allowing us

to become more fortified given the

grimness that were wrestling with

because these profound tech have already

provided in their own context ways of

understanding engaging overwhelming

catastrophe and all of us form desk

dread despair disappointment this is

chance and what have you and so I think

your question to those system should be

about reading it's very important very

important indeed one of my teachers

Mortimer Adler

used to say that reading is the most

revolutionary act so we have 78 it looks

like questions lined up and time is

running out so what I want to try to do

is combine two particularly good ones

into one last question you can address

it either one that you want but both

really had to do with isolation one

listener asked how can we handle our

grief in response to the peculiar way we

are dying or a loved ones are dying

another person asks what about our

upcoming religious festivals how does

one recognize the most important

liturgies which of course are embodied

in person practices or our faith under

these circumstances so we'd love to hear

from each of you on either question as

we wrap this up Robbie

you'll actually start us off yes well we

can pray together again this technology

makes that possible

just to give you one example there are

countless out there those of us who are

in the Christian community both

Protestant and Catholic who in be Stern

Orthodox who are associated with the

politics department at Princeton and the

James Madison program which I have the

honor of directing I got together at

noon every Tuesday for prayer session

and one of the things we do at the

beginning of each of the sessions is

have a reading from the Psalms it's

become our custom to have the great

Civil War historian Alan gales Oh who's

a new member of the Princeton community

we're so delighted to have him who is

very distinguished scholar of Lincoln in

the Civil War read us a psalm select a

psalm and read us a psalm and that's a

great comfort a because the Psalms are

such powerful inspirers of hope and

trust in God that's ultimately what they

are about and they're so beautiful the

Psalms indeed they are so beautiful that

it's very uplifting it's it's

spiritually enriching just to hear them

read and to contemplate them and to

meditate on them and to do it as a group

we can't be together physically but we

can be together virtually and of course

faith communities in all the traditions

are getting together masses for

Catholics are being live-streamed I

think that's more complicated at least

with Sabbath services for the Jewish

tradition because of the use of

technology I think Hamza mentioned did

you mention Hamza that there's some use

of technology to enable Muslims to pray

together surely that's happening in

other traditions as well so I think

that's something important that we can

all do and as far as the desolation is

concerned you cannot beat the zones

yes yes yes yes I think I think again I

love the arts I think of Dorothy love

coats up and listening to I'm just

holding on and I won't let go my faith

she and the Harman axis classic text

I've been living to Tchaikovsky's

Symphony number six the pathetique one

of the saddest and grimace works of the

classical music that we that we know

think of spiritual by Coltrane 1961 all

of these are works of art in the musical

way that helped us come to terms with

our grief but we just want to make sure

that grief does not become so

melancholic that it becomes something we

can never get a distance from we want to

go through the stages of mourning so in

the end we can come out fortify but if

the grief is not adequately wrestled

with then it leaves for the paralysis

and one of the ways in which music at

its deepest level helps us is that allow

us to objectified our creaks to get

enough distance from it so we can come

out strong even though the memory of

their loss is something that will haunt

us until we ourselves die I think also

if poets have a lot to offer us there's

there's there's a poem by Rumi where he

says this being human is a guesthouse

every morning a new arrival a joy a

depression

meanness some momentary awareness comes

as an unexpected guest welcome and

entertain them all even if they are a

crowd of sorrows who violently sweep

your house empty a bit of its furniture

still treat each guest honorably

maybe clearing you out for some new

delight the dark thought the shame the

malice meet them all at the door

laughing and invite them in be grateful

for whatever comes because each has been

sent as a guide from beyond and I think

there's an immense amount of truth to

that is to recognize the gifts that come

with the trials also I'm glad that the

all the other panelists are far greater

than I am because that first question

certainly is way above my pay grade I do

just want to acknowledge that question

though and say you know the questioner

made a reference I think in the unique

way in which people are dying I mean I

think there's so many overlooked aspects

of this in their heart or aspects that

are easy to overlook you know the idea

that people are not that just people are

dying you know who don't have to be

dying now or wouldn't be dying otherwise

but they're dying alone because they can

have by definition it can have visitors

in the hospital and what a what a sad

and tragic thing that is that people

suffering from this by definition have

to suffer alone because of the danger of

transmission and what a what a terrible

thing that is and so but some I'm glad

the questioner brought it up it's just

such a hard thing on the you know we are

we are thinking about Passover full-time

now in the Jewish community there's I

think I could say without without

controversy that the Passover Seder that

our our liturgy and celebration on here

in the United States on the first

evenings of Passover is the most

family-oriented aspect of our liturgical

year I mean there's no such thing as a

seder without without family without

guests and when there is including this

year especially this year it's it's

really a tragedy

the rabbi's the rabbi's serving the

communities that I'm a part of have said

unequivocally

that everyone has to stay home even if

that means being alone and I think I

think we have to don't want to end this

on such a such a sour note but I think

we actually have there's a lot of ways

to find meaning in that of course there

are many beautiful stories about grand

rabbis who have celebrated a Passover

Seder alone under difficult

circumstances and we can draw a lot of

inspiration from that but at the end of

the day it's a tragedy . not the tragedy

of death of course that we were speaking

about before but it's a tragedy . and we

have to just acknowledge that and just

recognize that this means and again I'd

rather have a Passover Seder alone then

lose my job I'd rather hoped Passover

Seder alone than lose my life and you

know fortunately I'll be able to be home

with my wife and my young children

that's that's an incredible blessing but

we won't necessarily be able to visit

you know our extended family as we would

have otherwise and that's really really

hard and I just hope and it's it's kind

of a lame comfort but I hope people can

find see a new angle that they never

would have seen in the holiday except

for these circumstances you know we

celebrate because we were slaves in

Egypt and we were redeemed and they in

the liturgy each year that we're

supposed to see ourselves as though we

left slavery and it's hard and are very

comfortable American lives certainly

among people here to imagine ourselves

suffering and this is not the sober

suffering like Egyptian slavery let me

be clear

and nevertheless it's a little bit

easier to put ourselves and in shoes of

dislocation and difficulty and so on and

so I think we need to take that take the

lessons but also just accept the fact

that this is a real loss having these

holidays come up without the normal

gatherings and there's just no way

around that

you know I was so struck by what Cornell

was saying about music and what homes I

was saying about poetry and it reminded

me of this this this very morning

because some of our great hymns are

really combinations of music and poetry

as you know Sharia although my Catholic

I grew up in West Virginia among

evangelicals and I learned to love the

old hymns that I grew up with and this

morning as I was just reflecting on our

condition or current crisis and all the

sadness associated with it and the

dangers what came flooding into my mind

was that wonderful old hymn I wonder if

you know it called we're drifting or I'm

drifting too far from the shore you're

drifting too far from the shore and

here's the poetry of it it's out on the

perilous out on the I guess perilous

deep where danger silently creep and

storms violently sweep you're drifting

too far from the shore you're drifting

too far from the shore drifting too far

from the shore come to Jesus today he

will show you the way you're drifting

too far from the shore that's a sort of

Christian reflection on what we do in

the face of the dangers that inevitably

come in life especially when we are

distracted and concerned with everything

else and not with what ultimately

matters but there is always the coming

back come to Jesus today he will show

you the way even though we're drifting

too far from the shore

Robby thank you there are so many

questions that have been asked there's

so much more that could be discussed but

this has been such a rich time and just

really appreciate each of our panelists

your generosity with your time and with

your wisdom as we wrap up just one more

note to all of our listeners we will be

sending out a survey immediately after

this broadcast and really would just

covet and welcome your thoughts on how

we can continue to do this better and

enhance this as an offering of both for

Trinity form and for Baylor and we just

thank you for joining us today as we

wrap up given that I think each of our

panelists have mentioned this it seems

only fitting to close in prayer so

Cornell would you close us out with

prayer indeed indeed dear God we come

humble hearts sincere souls even in this

grimness we acknowledged the gift of

life like each day is a gift and each

breath is a breakthrough and we hope

that this time we spent together for the

robbing sister sister she read brother

Hamza brother Daniel to be a moment that

would provide some inspiration some

empowerment to help somebody as they are

wrestling with this crisis that we know

will crack vessels we know we are

inadequate we know we are finite

we represent very very rich and profile

traditions of people down to the years

trying to make sense of overwhelming

suffering in massive misery and we know

as we come together whatever our

differences that there's a source of

solidarity which is moral and spiritual

that allows us to be the forces for good

we can be in the midst of this

overwhelming catastrophe amen

thank you again to each of our panelists

on behalf of both Baylor and Baylor in

Washington program and all of us at the

Trinity forum thank you so much for

joining us good night