say we're gonna threaten so we're going
to actually close you down forever if
you fail to comply or if you breach this
this this rule so this is next question
I'll direct to Cornell and then whoever
else would like to jump in that would be
great a questioner asked koban 19 has
exposed a lot of economic divisions in
new ways such as the allocation of
resources and exposure examples
including those who can access testing
typically those with wealth and better
healthcare and between those who can
stay home with a salary and those who
have to go out to make a minimum wage
trunk and faith communities address this
point of pain and division without
divulging in two political parties or
tropes well it's a wonderful question I
think we've touched it touched on it in
a number of different ways I think again
though we must always put a primacy on
the moral and the spiritual so we don't
degenerate into narrow partisan on
noise-making and what I mean by this is
that this this crisis is the kind of
crisis that on the one hand
to acknowledge our common humanity and
allow us to see very clearly the
hierarchies in place the economic
hierarchy the racial hierarchy the
gender hierarchies and so forth the
regional hierarchies Anna as was pointed
out the international context in which
America visa the other countries given
our richness and given our resources we
can see those kinds of hierarchies as
well so the question becomes how do we
become more morally and spiritually
vigilant to generate some political
consequences and by political I'm not
talking about democratic republic apart
I got it could you come over I'm talking
about Public Interest common good forms
of solidarity that have moral content
and spiritual substance to them that's
the only way to keep alive fragile
experiments and debacles there's no
democracy of was talking about without
healthy public life common good moral
and spiritual dimensions that keep track
of our humanity as opposed to other
identities that we may have and so I
think this is a matter of raising our
voices it's a matter of trying to forge
conversations discourses for most forces
and institutions that can't just I'm a
sea of the moral and spiritual as it
connects to the least of these as it
connects to often widowed fatherless
motherless and so forth so we've had two
or three people riding with a question
about what you were reading or
recommending for reading in these times
of isolation we'd love to hear from each
of you right now well I have a
scriptural amount that I read every day
just as a practice I continue to do that
like I said I read a book on the virtues
or the benefits of plague which was very
interesting and by a man who'd lived
through a few plagues
I'm also rereading some Jane Austen
right now she's she's a very firm
she's an analogical writer she's she's a
deeply spiritual writer a lot of people
miss that aspect of gain but so and then
I just reread finished Moby Dick again
which was an incredibly rewarding
experience I think people wanted one of
the tragedies of having to read things
in high school and colleges that you're
really not ready for them so it's very
important to read them when you have
enough life experience and Moby Dick was
a complete eye opener for me about the
very things with dr. Cornell was talking
about earlier about the hierarchy and
social injustice and and this madness
that the head of this ship which is
going to take everybody to destruction
and I found out because I want to know
where he got the name Moby Dick and I
actually found out that it was after
Austin Beale who was who had a ship
called the Moby Dick and he was
smuggling slaves on this ship out of out
of the south and he was doing this in
the 1850s in Boston so I thought that
was a shame can I just make an on with
this I I just want to make a correction
I think dr. Cornel mentioned Islam with
the idea of being angry at God and I
just I just wanted to say that in our
tradition there's a verse in the Quran
God will not be asked about what God
does but you will be asked about what
you do so as Muslim devout Muslims never
question the judgment of God or the
circumstances that God puts us in we're
just told to respond in the best way
no no I appreciate that though brother
that that's one of the differences
between these precious Muslims and we we
we wanna left-wing of the Reformation
Baptist you know got a whole lot of feel
you know I on readings if I can jump in
on on readings Thomas's reference to
Moby Dick just reminds me that gosh this
is a great opportunity to do something
that many of us have wanted to do for a
long time but didn't think we have the
time which is take on a big reading
project like Moby Dick that's a big
project to read Moby Dick or one of the
great Russian novels right probably
they're probably a lot of people out
there who know they should at some point
read something by Dostoyevsky or perhaps
one of the greats so some instant novels
there's something by tolls for but just
don't have the time to do something like
that well maybe now's the opportunity is
in a certain sense it's a gift the
opportunity to to do that to take on a
project like that I was saying to an
interviewer for the Catholic News Agency
recently in a similar vein now's the
time to do things that you've always
wanted to do or take up something you've
always wanted to take up but I've been
putting off ever had time maybe you'd
really like to take piano lessons now
you can't actually go to a teacher or
have a teacher come to you but guess
what in this age of the Internet
there are wonder I'm a musician myself
there are wonderful lessons for any
instrument you can think of online you
can learn piano with online lessons or
guitar or banjo or whatever it is you
offering Angeles yeah yeah I'll give you
that and then if I can go back just very
quickly to an earlier question Cherie
about what do we do with our time
spiritual sustenance let's not forget
that in all of our traditions there are
spiritual practices there are spiritual
practices that are promoted like in
Catholicism the saying of the rose or
or certain prayers or meditations maybe
maybe many of us don't do those on a
regular basis as much as we would like
to well now is a time to do that also if
I could just urge something for
religious folk out there you probably
have a prayer list a list of people
you're praying for because they're
especially close to you your children
your grandparents or because they're
people you know or in need perhaps
they're recently bereaved or they're
suffering from an illness or an
infirmity of some sort or they have a
special cause or something that's coming
up in their lives and you're praying for
them because of that they're they've got
a got a bar exam to pass or they are
trying to finish school but because
we're a limited time you know the the
prayer list has to be fairly fairly
short we rotate people on or often now's
the time you can actually expand your
prayer list right you can you can take
the time to to pray by name for more
people than you ordinarily what you can
take up each other's cause us in prayer
that's just something occurred to me
that it would be nice for us all to do
yeah I know what are you reading almost
hoping you wouldn't ask me I have an
embarrassing confession but since we're
here with our eleven hundred closest
friends yeah twenty-six hundred closest
friends and friends so dear that they
may have taken time out of Tiger King to
join us so I'll say that the truth is I
I don't have any big reading projects
right now we have thank God so far two
very small children a two-year-old and
the 10 month old in that occasion also
to thank my dear wife who's doing
overtime childcare right now so I could
be here but you know in addition to that
I'm trying to steal every moments I can
to work on my own writing a book not
related to this I'm trying to finish but
I I do admit that in between all of that
and the little extra moments I'm
stealing from the quarantine beyond the
normal duties I've been trying to read
as much as I can about the coronavirus
to be honest I mean I'm interested in
the medical and the scientific aspect
from the debates that are going on now
but also I mean this is you know one way
or another this is something that's
going to stay with us for a while
lots of ramifications and a lot of
articles about the political economic
and social consequences of the of the
pandemic and of the crisis though my
go-to place I if I may since we're
naming names of the Witherspoon
Institute in Princeton has a website a
journal called public discourse and it's
an amazing resource during these weeks
for articles on the humane aspect of the
crisis about what it means to be a human
being at a time like this and to live
through it as well as things relate to
economics and politics and so on that's
just that's just one source but of
course the Internet has as many good
articles and you know for someone like
me who who teaches in a political
science department at his job it is to
think about the way we organize the
world and the way we live together in
communities you know I think about that
professionally it's a really good
opportunity to take these extra moments
to think deeply about what this crisis
means for us as a society in addition to
you know how to stay safe when I go to
the grocery store and all of that on
that dr. George's about prayer I
personally have a lot of friends who are
physicians I was once a registered nurse
so I know what it's like I worked in
intensive care and then ER in burn unit
so I think to pray for our first the
people my own son is is working in an
ambulance taking older people so he
worries about just being a you know
infecting anybody so I think praying for
these people because they really are the
heroes in this situation and dr. Aisha
Subhani who dr. George knows I mean he's
in some of her colleagues to come just
because they've been expired
yeah and just keeping them in it just
you know in our hearts and prayers
because they really are extraordinary
people many of them are going above and
beyond and and so praying for them I
think means a lot to them as well as
hopefully God hears our prayers yes
that's so that's so important Tom so
thank you for bringing that out and
while we're at it let's pray for anybody
who's out there on the
lines taking risks this this includes
you know the the people who are at the
checkout counter in the grocery stores
because the grocery stores are still
operating sanitation workers clergy
anybody who doesn't have the luxury
because of their vocation doesn't have
the luxury that I for example happen
just being able to stay in my house and
occasionally go out for a nice walk in
the in the open air there are people out
there who have to have human contact
because they're serving human needs and
gosh do they deserve and need or prayers
I think you thought the series point
above read reading as a form of
empowerment not just individually but
allowing us to use our imaginations in
such a way that we are not paralyzed in
wheel when it comes to serving others
when it comes to forging bonds of
solidarity and this is the kind of thing
that Bill O'Reilly and I have talked
together for 15 years Paideia the deep
education tied to reading so that when
somebody is invoked Melville and
brightly throne I just haven't be greedy
not there be a chart so great lectures
1950 on on a hat the second section the
first sections on Don Quixote
it's the enchant fleur that when you
read a mail real or Cervantes when you
read hell God adds up the meaning of
Shakespeare the greatest lectures
probably in the history of the United
States on the greatest Bardon English
language from swath for brother Robert
is from as well more than 30 years
teaching it allows more boy died that
these are ways of actually allowing us
to become more fortified given the
grimness that were wrestling with
because these profound tech have already
provided in their own context ways of
understanding engaging overwhelming
catastrophe and all of us form desk
dread despair disappointment this is
chance and what have you and so I think
your question to those system should be
about reading it's very important very
important indeed one of my teachers
Mortimer Adler
used to say that reading is the most
revolutionary act so we have 78 it looks
like questions lined up and time is
running out so what I want to try to do
is combine two particularly good ones
into one last question you can address
it either one that you want but both
really had to do with isolation one
listener asked how can we handle our
grief in response to the peculiar way we
are dying or a loved ones are dying
another person asks what about our
upcoming religious festivals how does
one recognize the most important
liturgies which of course are embodied
in person practices or our faith under
these circumstances so we'd love to hear
from each of you on either question as
we wrap this up Robbie
you'll actually start us off yes well we
can pray together again this technology
makes that possible
just to give you one example there are
countless out there those of us who are
in the Christian community both
Protestant and Catholic who in be Stern
Orthodox who are associated with the
politics department at Princeton and the
James Madison program which I have the
honor of directing I got together at
noon every Tuesday for prayer session
and one of the things we do at the
beginning of each of the sessions is
have a reading from the Psalms it's
become our custom to have the great
Civil War historian Alan gales Oh who's
a new member of the Princeton community
we're so delighted to have him who is
very distinguished scholar of Lincoln in
the Civil War read us a psalm select a
psalm and read us a psalm and that's a
great comfort a because the Psalms are
such powerful inspirers of hope and
trust in God that's ultimately what they
are about and they're so beautiful the
Psalms indeed they are so beautiful that
it's very uplifting it's it's
spiritually enriching just to hear them
read and to contemplate them and to
meditate on them and to do it as a group
we can't be together physically but we
can be together virtually and of course
faith communities in all the traditions
are getting together masses for
Catholics are being live-streamed I
think that's more complicated at least
with Sabbath services for the Jewish
tradition because of the use of
technology I think Hamza mentioned did
you mention Hamza that there's some use
of technology to enable Muslims to pray
together surely that's happening in
other traditions as well so I think
that's something important that we can
all do and as far as the desolation is
concerned you cannot beat the zones
yes yes yes yes I think I think again I
love the arts I think of Dorothy love
coats up and listening to I'm just
holding on and I won't let go my faith
she and the Harman axis classic text
I've been living to Tchaikovsky's
Symphony number six the pathetique one
of the saddest and grimace works of the
classical music that we that we know
think of spiritual by Coltrane 1961 all
of these are works of art in the musical
way that helped us come to terms with
our grief but we just want to make sure
that grief does not become so
melancholic that it becomes something we
can never get a distance from we want to
go through the stages of mourning so in
the end we can come out fortify but if
the grief is not adequately wrestled
with then it leaves for the paralysis
and one of the ways in which music at
its deepest level helps us is that allow
us to objectified our creaks to get
enough distance from it so we can come
out strong even though the memory of
their loss is something that will haunt
us until we ourselves die I think also
if poets have a lot to offer us there's
there's there's a poem by Rumi where he
says this being human is a guesthouse
every morning a new arrival a joy a
depression
meanness some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected guest welcome and
entertain them all even if they are a
crowd of sorrows who violently sweep
your house empty a bit of its furniture
still treat each guest honorably
maybe clearing you out for some new
delight the dark thought the shame the
malice meet them all at the door
laughing and invite them in be grateful
for whatever comes because each has been
sent as a guide from beyond and I think
there's an immense amount of truth to
that is to recognize the gifts that come
with the trials also I'm glad that the
all the other panelists are far greater
than I am because that first question
certainly is way above my pay grade I do
just want to acknowledge that question
though and say you know the questioner
made a reference I think in the unique
way in which people are dying I mean I
think there's so many overlooked aspects
of this in their heart or aspects that
are easy to overlook you know the idea
that people are not that just people are
dying you know who don't have to be
dying now or wouldn't be dying otherwise
but they're dying alone because they can
have by definition it can have visitors
in the hospital and what a what a sad
and tragic thing that is that people
suffering from this by definition have
to suffer alone because of the danger of
transmission and what a what a terrible
thing that is and so but some I'm glad
the questioner brought it up it's just
such a hard thing on the you know we are
we are thinking about Passover full-time
now in the Jewish community there's I
think I could say without without
controversy that the Passover Seder that
our our liturgy and celebration on here
in the United States on the first
evenings of Passover is the most
family-oriented aspect of our liturgical
year I mean there's no such thing as a
seder without without family without
guests and when there is including this
year especially this year it's it's
really a tragedy
the rabbi's the rabbi's serving the
communities that I'm a part of have said
unequivocally
that everyone has to stay home even if
that means being alone and I think I
think we have to don't want to end this
on such a such a sour note but I think
we actually have there's a lot of ways
to find meaning in that of course there
are many beautiful stories about grand
rabbis who have celebrated a Passover
Seder alone under difficult
circumstances and we can draw a lot of
inspiration from that but at the end of
the day it's a tragedy . not the tragedy
of death of course that we were speaking
about before but it's a tragedy . and we
have to just acknowledge that and just
recognize that this means and again I'd
rather have a Passover Seder alone then
lose my job I'd rather hoped Passover
Seder alone than lose my life and you
know fortunately I'll be able to be home
with my wife and my young children
that's that's an incredible blessing but
we won't necessarily be able to visit
you know our extended family as we would
have otherwise and that's really really
hard and I just hope and it's it's kind
of a lame comfort but I hope people can
find see a new angle that they never
would have seen in the holiday except
for these circumstances you know we
celebrate because we were slaves in
Egypt and we were redeemed and they in
the liturgy each year that we're
supposed to see ourselves as though we
left slavery and it's hard and are very
comfortable American lives certainly
among people here to imagine ourselves
suffering and this is not the sober
suffering like Egyptian slavery let me
be clear
and nevertheless it's a little bit
easier to put ourselves and in shoes of
dislocation and difficulty and so on and
so I think we need to take that take the
lessons but also just accept the fact
that this is a real loss having these
holidays come up without the normal
gatherings and there's just no way
around that
you know I was so struck by what Cornell
was saying about music and what homes I
was saying about poetry and it reminded
me of this this this very morning
because some of our great hymns are
really combinations of music and poetry
as you know Sharia although my Catholic
I grew up in West Virginia among
evangelicals and I learned to love the
old hymns that I grew up with and this
morning as I was just reflecting on our
condition or current crisis and all the
sadness associated with it and the
dangers what came flooding into my mind
was that wonderful old hymn I wonder if
you know it called we're drifting or I'm
drifting too far from the shore you're
drifting too far from the shore and
here's the poetry of it it's out on the
perilous out on the I guess perilous
deep where danger silently creep and
storms violently sweep you're drifting
too far from the shore you're drifting
too far from the shore drifting too far
from the shore come to Jesus today he
will show you the way you're drifting
too far from the shore that's a sort of
Christian reflection on what we do in
the face of the dangers that inevitably
come in life especially when we are
distracted and concerned with everything
else and not with what ultimately
matters but there is always the coming
back come to Jesus today he will show
you the way even though we're drifting
too far from the shore
Robby thank you there are so many
questions that have been asked there's
so much more that could be discussed but
this has been such a rich time and just
really appreciate each of our panelists
your generosity with your time and with
your wisdom as we wrap up just one more
note to all of our listeners we will be
sending out a survey immediately after
this broadcast and really would just
covet and welcome your thoughts on how
we can continue to do this better and
enhance this as an offering of both for
Trinity form and for Baylor and we just
thank you for joining us today as we
wrap up given that I think each of our
panelists have mentioned this it seems
only fitting to close in prayer so
Cornell would you close us out with
prayer indeed indeed dear God we come
humble hearts sincere souls even in this
grimness we acknowledged the gift of
life like each day is a gift and each
breath is a breakthrough and we hope
that this time we spent together for the
robbing sister sister she read brother
Hamza brother Daniel to be a moment that
would provide some inspiration some
empowerment to help somebody as they are
wrestling with this crisis that we know
will crack vessels we know we are
inadequate we know we are finite
we represent very very rich and profile
traditions of people down to the years
trying to make sense of overwhelming
suffering in massive misery and we know
as we come together whatever our
differences that there's a source of
solidarity which is moral and spiritual
that allows us to be the forces for good
we can be in the midst of this
overwhelming catastrophe amen
thank you again to each of our panelists
on behalf of both Baylor and Baylor in
Washington program and all of us at the
Trinity forum thank you so much for
joining us good night