IIS Interview: Islam and Women

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Event Name: IIS Interview: Islam and Women
Transcription Date:Transcription Modified Date: 5/16/2019
Transcript Version: 1

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assalamu alaikum and welcome to american

muslim hour I am Asuma cartoon today we

are speaking with Sheikh Hamza Yusuf

about two women in Islam well c'mon say

Yusuf let's start up a little bit about

the history of the Sharia and the role

of women in that in the seventh century

Arabia the Sharia or Islamic law was

established to protect women's rights in

the fields of freedom of belief property

lineage and honor for example if that

was its purpose why today is Islam seen

as oppressive to women I would I would

say first and foremost that the Sharia

is not something that came in the

seventh century the principles upon

which the Shetty is based came in the

seventh century but the the actual

sacred law of Islam is a human endeavor

it took about three hundred years to to

formulate and much of it is based on

humans attempt at understanding

revelation and so you have a always when

you're dealing with religious tradition

you are dealing with human attempts at

understanding God's intent through a

book or a revelation like the Christians

attempting to understand what God

intended for them through the Bible the

Muslims have the same historical

situation in attempting to understand

what God intended for them through the

Quran so the the actual laws that were

given to the prophets a lot if so then

in the seventh century are the there are

not that many and a lot of Muslims are

unaware of that the majority of the the

legal verses in the Quran of which there

are only about 500 out of six six

thousand over six thousand six hundred

verses in the Quran only about

500 deal with legal situations and most

of them deal with it in a way that

enables situational law in other words

that in different situations different

laws are applied so those aims and

purposes behind law so you have an

example of in in Islamic law if somebody

steals then their hand is is cut off now

people think that that sounds barbaric

but the reality of it is is that law

only applies with certain types of theft

it doesn't apply for theft that occurred

because things were left out it's

somebody breaking what we would call in

this culture of breaking and entering

and stealing from a protected area and

then it's only under certain situations

so all mah live in a hut Bob who's the

second caliph of Islam he suspended that

law during a drought and a famine period

because he said people were forced to

steal in order to feed their families

and therefore the aim and purpose of the

law was no longer being served in

applying the law so Islamic law is not

some kind of simpletons law of how to

run a society in the seventh century and

try to apply that in the 21st century

it's it's it's a very complex and

sophisticated legal system and it's

based on rigorous principles that were

laid down in the Quran and there are

certain legal issues that deal with

women with women's rights and for at the

time they were considered extremely

radical now in this quote/unquote

enlightened period of time the

Christians didn't give property rights

to their women until the 19th century

and and that's a historical fact in


women were constantly deprived of

property and wealth because even second

or third born sons because in the

English legal system in the 19th century

it was the firstborn who inherited all

the property of the and from this long

point of view that's unjust so in Islam

1,400 years ago women were given

inheritance laws and people say well

what about a woman who only inherits

half because the Quran says that a male

gets twice as much as a female that was

specifically in one instant there are

other inheritance instants where women

inherit and men male relatives don't or

women actually get more than the men but

in one specific instance which is when

there's a son and a daughter that that

would be a case where the son took twice

as much as as the the daughter and the

reason for that the wisdom behind it is

that a woman's wealth in Islam is

discretionary she her well she can use

it in whatever way she wants whereas a

man's wealth is there its those

responsibilities related to he has to

support his parents if they're old and

unable to support themselves he has to

support any female relatives that don't

have male support he has

responsibilities and that was always

understood by the scholars of Islam they

never saw it as the men are twice as

good as women or deserve twice as many

saw it as a burden that it was actually

a burden so I think part of the problem

is that because there's so much

ignorance not just amongst the Muslims

or certainly amongst Anonymous's but the

Muslims themselves are ignorant about

Islamic law where in history do you

suppose that the laws of the Sharia were

abrogated in order to convince Muslim

women that Islam was oppressive to them

and this abuse of Islam then encouraged

in favor of men I first I would say that

I don't think anywhere has to have the

laws of Islam been abrogated I would

rephrase that by saying that there there

are certainly very early

the laws of Islam are no longer being

applied in terms of women I don't think

women have ever been convinced that

Islam is repressive for them but I think

that they have in in many Muslim

countries the way that Islam has

expressed culturally itself is not

dissimilar to the way that Christianity

was expressed in the West for many


basically patriarchal with an idea of a

certain hierarchy and a position of

women in society and I think what's

difficult for people in the West to

realize is that this quote/unquote

women's liberation is a very recent

phenomenon and so when when they look at

the Muslim world they're looking at a

world that is not dissimilar to their

own world not that long ago that these

traditions are still maintained and

their human traditions whether Islam

agrees with that or not is is a matter

of of looking into what Islam says about

the specific situation

why are you suppose that that happens

well I think that by the nature of

relationships power is an element in any

human relationship if you work in a

corporation you are in a power

relationship with the people you work

with your boss has certain power over

you one of the things that drives people

crazy in corporations is watching people

kiss up to the boss why do they do that

why do they treat the boss with respect

and they don't treat their fellow

coworkers with that same respect because

there's a power relationship involved

here and I think that marriage it's very

easy to slip into power relationships

that are dysfunctional that are

pathological then they're not healthy

that you're human beings and and we do

have certain elements in our

personalities in our nature you're

dealing with biology males are a more

aggressive branch of the human family

and this is biological testosterone is a

hormone that if given to women women

become more aggressive and this is

something that has been confirmed

Western medicine so I think that that

males by their nature have aggressive

tendency if they're not tempered by good

upbringing by their mothers by

humanization and by an understanding of

the awesome tasks and responsibilities

of being in a human relationship whether

it be family in terms of a son towards

the parents the parents towards the

children or our husband towards the wife

how do you think women internalize that

how do you think that Muslim women will

manifest that in their roles today well

I think women all over not just I listen

women are women yes that happened to

have that adjective that they're that

they belong to a faith but first and

foremost they're human beings and so I

think that you'll find throughout the

planet you will find very similar

pathologies manifested by human beings

and certainly America is filled with

very dysfunctional relationships women

here are grossly abused the the number

one cause of murder amongst women in the

United States is from their husbands or

their boyfriends that I mean you see

this so I don't think you can say

Muslims have any monopoly on the

mistreatment of women I think globally

we have a problem the the problem in

Islam occurs when Muslims do not adhere

to the traditions of Islam to the

teachings of Islam and and and and vice

versa when they do it here you will see

in fact extraordinary harmony occur in

the human relationships because very

clear guidelines have been given in

terms of gender relationships so you're

saying that Muslims have themselves to

blame no way that first and foremost yes

absolutely I mean I think that what

happens because human beings it by

nature we have certain flaws in our in

our thinking and that's why logic was

traditionally taught as a

actual science in order to to redress

flaws one of the flaws of people is

cause and effect people will often

mistake because they see certain effects

they'll mistake the cause it's it's

difficult to determine real cause now

what will happen if you if you look at

the muslim world as a non-muslim when

they look at the muslim world and they

see the the dysfunctional nature of

muslim societies they assumed the cause

is islam there's for a muslim looking at

the muslim world and understanding his

religion he knows in fact the cause is

the abandonment of islam it's the fact

that these people are no longer

practicing islam and and so that's

that's the important thing is to

understand that you know the arabs have

a beautiful principle in the science of

ban which is one of the sciences of of

language they say a local auto shaitan

fell onto solidity but before we can

judge a thing we have to understand it

in all of its variables and we're filled

with a world of prejudice people are

constantly prejudging the average

american will make remarks about islam

they'll think that they're liberal

humanistic unbiased unprejudiced and yet

you ask them what they think of islam

that's a stupid religion it's a backward

religion it's oppressive to women have

you ever read the Quran no have you ever

read a tradition of the Prophet Muhammad

no so what are they basing that on

they're basing it on just observing with

some societies well if we observe

Christian societies have we seen turn

the other cheek applied in the West in

the last two thousand years those turn

the other cheek applied in your rock

right the the biblical foundation of the

Torah according to Rabbi Hillel who's

one of the greatest Jewish rabbis is

that the entire message of the Torah

which is the Jewish book is love God and

love thy neighbor as thyself

you see the Jews practicing that towards

their Palestinian neighbors does that

mean that the Torah is invalid as a book

because of what the Jews are doing does

that mean that the gospel is invalid as

a book because of what the Christians

are doing but unfortunately people apply

logic outside of themselves that they

like and then they refuse to apply it on

their own cells it's a little bit about

your analogy of mercy and justice you

discussed that you see mercy

characteristic to women and justice more

characteristic or symbolic of men can

you expand on that what I think if you

look in the world you will find that

this is one of the paradoxes of the

world of the dilemmas of the world is on

the one hand we honor virtue as a

religious virtue and on the other hand

we honor justice as a moral virtue if we

look at mercy as a religious virtue it's

very difficult for us to have justice

when we bring mercy into as some say

like Shakespeare that that that that

mercy must temper justice in other words

be just that have that mercy temper the

justice to prevent it from becoming harm

or becoming a harshness in the Christian

world mercy is at the root of the of the

Christian message

this idea of mercy I think in Islam the

the the woman is the embodiment of mercy

the word in Arabic for mercy LACMA is is

derived from the word for womb and so

the understanding of the Muslims have

always been that the source of Mercy in

the world is the womb it is the womb

it's the blood bonds that that that bond

us as a dynamic people that we're from

many Adam we're children of Adam and

therefore we should have compassion for

all human beings irrespective of race

their Creed their color and at the same


we need to have justice in the world in

order for their four things to work in

the marketplace so my cosmological

understanding in Islam is that a woman

represents symbolically the the the

virtue of justice in the world and the

man represents of mercy and the man

represents justice and these are the two

hands that God has given human beings

the left on the right hand and and and

they're to work together this is this is

how things are done in the world so the

relationship between men and women is a

relationship that's complementary it's

not an equal relationship and I think

this is where people have a real problem

because equality is a mathematical

concept you don't find equality in the

world you'll find equality in

mathematics as far as worshiping Allah

equality is the same in his eyes as far

as I know there's no equality in worship

and I'll give you an example two people

pray one of them is sincere in his prose

and the other is not but outwardly they

looked exactly the same they're not

equal Iran for instance says are they

equal those who know and those who don't

know they're not equal we're not living

in a world of equality and I think this

is one of the modern misconceptions of

the world this lie to try to create this

so-called egalitarian society there has

never on this planet been an egalitarian

society human beings are not equal

they're not equal in talent and gifts

the only place where they are equal is

before the law that is the only place if

if a rich man and a poor man come before

a judge that judge has to treat them the

same before the law if a male or a

female comes before a judge that man

must treat them equal before the law in

terms of actual real experience in the

world you cannot find equality it's a

myth that in terms of seeking Allah's

reward between a man and

that they have the same potential

potential yes

absolutely that in fact really it's

unfair because women have an easier now

to gain God's grace according to the

Islamic tradition how so well for

instance according to the Prophet

Muhammad a woman came to him and

complained she said we see men go out

and struggle in the way of God defending

the lands of Islam we see them they have

more money than we do and they give

charity and we see them that they go to

the congregational mosque five times a

day and we have children that keep us in

our houses they're getting all the

reward and the Prophet Muhammad peace be

upon him said any woman who fulfills her

trust to God and her responsibility in

her household has the same reward as

that man out there who's doing jihad

who's paying his charity who's going to

the mosque in other words and I think

with the way my wife said that when she

told me she said that's not equal she

said it's that the Prophet understood

how difficult it is to be a woman in

this world because even though we feel

that the women may feel that they are

furthering their purposes at home and

they feel they have another purpose of

doing good for the Ummah in in in terms

of being out in the public eye for those

reasons the greatest good that a mother

can do for not just the Ummah of Islam

but for Humanity is to raise a human

being that is the greatest thing that

she can do and if she thinks she can do

anything greater she's deluded she is

deluded now not every woman is a mother

and there's certainly many many things

that women can do but if a woman has a

child once she's committed to that and

has a child if she abandons that

responsibility in in pursuit of some

empty career or some idea of making her

mark on the world she has completely


the the the the the the the great

importance and the great responsibility

that she has been given by God in that

the fruit of her womb is before her and

she will be asked all of you are

shepherds and every Shepherd is

responsible for his flock and then he

said a ruler is a shepherd and he's

responsible for the country our husband

is a shepherd and he's responsible for

his family and a woman is a shepherd and

she's responsible for her children so if

a woman brings children into this world

and then dumps them in a daycare center

where people have 20 or 30 children and

a woman's being paid $8 an hour to look

after those 20 or 30 children and then

she thinks that somehow she's doing

something more important by going out

and working I think there's something

very seriously wrong with her maternal

instincts yes because abandonment in in

in the animal kingdom abandonment is is

is is alien to animals they will only do

abandonment out of mercy that they will

abandon an animal out of mercy they will

they they won't abandon if the animal is

well with respect to your response to


weboth fair that is the woman's only

means of livelihood and that's another

situation you see you can't yeah I mean

Islam is not again it's not a simpletons

religion if a woman has no other source

of income and she's forced to do certain

things and she's forced to do them and

that the shame is on the man

the shame is on the men for not for not

facilitating for women to to raise their

children I mean we're living look if you

look at America right now look at the

children in this country look at the

rage listen to the music don't listen to

it but if you do this into it from these

loudspeakers up coming out of their cars

as they drive by that music is filled

with rage and look at their faces look

at the spiritual state of these people

or the breath

state the lack of spirituality and to

give some of them credit I'm amazed at

how well some of them do despite all of

the odds against them I am amazed that

there's children out there there's young

people out there that are really

struggling to find a purpose to their

life in a world that is telling them

constantly including their parents by

abandoning them that they are worthless

and that their lives are purposeless ok

irrespective of financial need

looking at your knowledge of mercy in

women and I've been characteristic of

women sailor woman

Muslim woman married with children her

husband provides well and family swing

fine if she feels that with this

characteristic of having mercy is able

to go out into the working world and is

able to do something good for the Ummah

whether it be in the media whether it be

in any any fun and if her capability and

her family has been taken care of

how does that configure with abandonment

well again I would really emphasize that

no one can give two children what a

mother can give to their children that

doesn't mean there aren't pathological

mothers out there there are there are

mothers that dump their babies into

garbage cans and this happens people

read about these things in the

newspapers and some people experience

them firsthand but the point is is that

children need time children thrive on

time I have three children they're


and the amount of time that not just my

wife but that I put into those children

it is is immense and and they thrive on

it they need time and parents now spend

five or ten minutes with their children

in a day and you cannot do that to a

child you will kill that child's soul

and they'll end up spending the rest of

their life seeking that

in pathological ways from other people

they'll end up spending it by trying to

be superficial beings that only think

that they're worth in the world is

physical like so many of the women out

there why are all these women getting

plastic surgery to rearrange their faces

why are they out there jogging in the

streets trying to keep up with some

image of the body that has been

presented to them by by a mainstream

media that has essentially at its root a

desire to sell them things that to sell

them cosmetics to sell them clothes that

quote unquote looks sexy to sell them

toothpaste that's going to make them

more presentable I mean this is what's

happening out there people are in a very

if you look out at the world right now

look out there look at the state of

human beings right now so many of these

women that I see out there do not look

well they do not look well to me and I

think part of it is because their souls

are telling them but they're not well

because they're not doing what they're

supposed to be doing and if you don't do

what you're supposed to do in this world

your soul will let you know from every

which way and it will be painful you'll

end up if you don't listen to your soul

you'll end up on antidepressants you

learned up on alcohol you'll end up on

drugs you'll end up in pathological

relationships so what is the role of the

women which is which would be deemed as

it's immunizes errect you know the role

I hate that word first and foremost

because it's an acting metaphor that's

what the role but anyway I'm it's

English language but I would say that

the not so much the role but the purpose

mm-hmm of a woman is the same as the

purpose of a man and that is to know

their Lord before they die and that is

why they were created and everything

else is incidental that is the essential

purpose of a human being is to have a

direct relationship with

creator of the heavens in the earth and

if they're told anything else it's a lie

if they're told that their main role in

life is to have children that is a lie

children are a path to God and there are

powerful paths and children are

spiritual teachers children are teachers

they teach us and he also remind us

about a pure world a pure state and a

state that our souls were once in but I

I would say that the purpose of a woman

is the purpose of a man it is to know

and worship God how much of an impact us

our cultural heritage as women have in

our identities today how much does

culture play in our identities why you

know the nature-nurture argument I think

that nature and nurture are both working

together environment has a massive

impact if you grow up in Sri Lanka

you'll enjoy listening to a certain type

music that most Americans would would

have a really difficult time listening

to and vice versa Sri Lankan would be

horrified at what people doesn't do in

Los Angeles but while that's changing

due to global pressures that there's no

doubt that that culture plays an

incredible has an incredible impact and

the stories of a culture in our culture

I was raised as a Christian and in the

Christian culture we're taught that Eve

basically is the cause of the fall of

man which is alien to the Islamic belief

but it's central to the Christian belief

and this is why many Christian women are

post Christian women have abandoned

Christianity because they don't like the

idea of praying to a father they don't

like the idea of a male God and this is

something that is alien to Islam Islam

has no understanding of a male God God

is is beyond male and female God's

attributes are exalted beyond human

attributes we don't anthropomorphize God

God is called a king in the in the

Corin Milic which tends to be a male

attribute he's also called alwa dude

which is the the word for a loving wife

he's also called a rock man

which is the merciful coming and the the

word for womb is derived out of that

word yeah man so that the Muslims have

always understood that there are what

are known as Jamali and Jalali

attributes of God beautiful and majestic

and they've always seen them in terms of

that women are a manifestation of divine

Beauty and men are a manifestation of

divine majesty and outwardly and

inwardly it's reversed inwardly women

have divine majesty as as the the

attribute that's manifesting in them and

any woodenly men have divine Beauty

that's the way it's supposed to be I

mean that's these are healthy I'm

talking about healthy cosmological

understandings when people are are

living as a dynamic people that one of

the things that can happen to human

beings according to the Quran is they

can be reduced to lower than animals and

you see it out there look at the human

beings out there look what there's a

billboard now for a movie that shows a

man with a holding onto the tail of an

elephant and it's the whole idea that

human beings are animals he's telling

them that and what how do they have

behind that know what is a whole other

program I think because all he would is

Hollywood is I think you know they say

artists are the antennae of society

Hollywood is letting us know where we're

going there they're a symptom Hollywood

is not the disease Hollywood is a

symptom the fact that we have allowed

these things to to purvey permeate our

consciousness how do you think we have

allowed that to happen yeah Hollywood

can't exist if people don't buy the

tickets to their films and and watch the

programs and by the corporate rubbish

that they're that the people that own

them sell do you think that if

became more involved in Hollywood that

things could change no I think it's a

horrible thing Hollywood will change

them they won't change Hollywood

American Muslim women are beginning to

pick up a momentum of being more

involved in the public arena and to have

their voices heard and you may see this

as our wish to become more like men

however is it wrong to be seen in the

public eye if our intention is to do

good for the Ummah well I mean you're

putting those words into my mouth I

wouldn't see it as becoming more like

men I think women have responsibility in

fact I personally believe that if women

don't have indignation about what's

happening to their children about what's

how many to their societies and if that

indignation does not motivate them to

literally do some serious measures to

take serious measures to enact a change

then things will get worse I think that

that women have immense power and

immense potential to do good and to be a

transformative element in society and

women are half the the the human

condition and and there needs to be more

female influence on the world I think

part of the problem with the world is

that there's been too much male

dominance too much male influence and

it's had a very unhealthy impact we call

the earth mother earth and that's not a

Western idea that's actually an Islamic

concept as well the Prophet Muhammad's

allies in him in a hadith in Fulani said

this earth is your mother and I think

the fact that raping and pillaging of

the earth which is going on right now

all over the planet is symptomatic of

aggressive male energy and that if if

that male energy is not tempered by the

humanizing element of the female of the

mother of getting the milk of human

kindness that we will continue to do

this until we destroy the

viability for human life on the earth

and I think that the criminals behind

that will be men they will not be women

unless we see women as complicit in the

crime by their silence so I I don't

believe that at all I think women have

to do something and and and I think

they're signs of that I think that

there's women in this culture that have

done extraordinary things we have a

history of women not just in the West

but in the Muslim world that that was a

beautiful story of an endo to seeing

woman she was a poet who was so

distressed by the tyranny of our

governor in her province that she wrote

a poem to the Keita and in the poem she

she said what do you say about a

shepherd who's eating his flock and and

she the poem was so powerful she sent it

through a messenger to the Caliph and

when he read the poem he was moved to

tears and he actually went to that City

and ascertained indeed that the governor

was oppressing the people and he removed

him and that was from the poem of a

woman that is a beautiful display of a

political dissent at the highest levels

and shows you the sophistication of the

people not just the moon but the

sophistication of the women to actually

protest in poetry and to have that

poetry move the ruler to the degree that

he would do something mm-hmm was a

testimony to what type of people they

were it's talking a bit about issues

where women seem to not have as much

power as you could say as far as in

Jordan an average I think it's 30 women

at an average of 30 women a year are

killed in honor killings

I'm where's the justice in that well I

mean there isn't any justice there I

don't you know the question is that's

all right there's no Jeffs what honor

killings what what see that how can

this song that has no concept of that

the Christian Arabs do that Mexicans

used to do that but the reports are not

I mean this is this is those reports of

it in Pakistan this used to happen all

over the world this said this happened

in Christian countries this is just a

situation that exists existed in many

parts of the world that doesn't justify

it that the fact that it still exists in

that part of the world is only

indicative of the fact that that

familial honor is still an extremely

important if not a central element to

those societies and a woman's chastity

is still considered something that is at

the essence of the honor of the family

as well as the chastity of a male but

because it tends to be a patriarchal

culture and because of the fact that

women when they lose their virginity

there are physical generally physical

signs of it and certainly pregnancy can

occur whereas with a man a man is more

veiled than a woman in that situation

that in no way does it mean that a man

who commits fornication or adultery is

any less condemnable than a woman

they're both terrible breaches of divine

comportment that I would say that the

Christians have the same concept in

their ignorant

societies Arab Christians have done this

so there was an Arab Christian that

killed his daughter in Chicago this

occurred in the United States it's a

very sick thing to do I find somebody

would have to be a really sick human

being to be able to to kill their own

progeny but in America there's been over

20 million abortions and the only

difference in America is that they say

well these are unborn you know so I

think before Americans start pointing

the finger at thirty honor killings in


let's look at 20 million babies that

have been killed in America all right

really I mean America is a very it's a

culture of amazing paradox and do you

believe the fact that women are now

allowed to vote in Kuwait regardless of

the outcome is a encouraging encouraging

indicator a woman's movement here yeah

well like the bumper sticker says don't

vote it only encourages them I don't

know I mean you know the idea of Muslim

having a vote or not I were the first

country to give women to vote who was

Egypt in the 1880s the Americans didn't

have there was one state I think it was

Wisconsin that gave women to vote in the

19th century his only state there's only

one state in America you know maybe all

the feminists should move there or


that there's no other in America the

women to get the vote to the 1920s

mm-hmm when the Constitution was there

was an amendment yeah to giving in the

vote but the idea traditionally in a

traditional culture was one family one

vote that was the idea it wasn't the

idea that women didn't have the right to

vote it was there was another saying of

a family unit but generally that family

would support and if you have a husband

and a wife that are voting for different

people I mean you've got a serious

problem in your family right in other

words there's a real conflict that is a

conflict I think that's a very deep

conflict that's not a superficial

conflict and they should have maybe done

a poll before they got married to see

how they would vote or something like

that because that's going to indicate

some compatibility and many marriages

have ended in divorce because of

Republican and Democrat splits so you

know do you think the woman that

shouldn't know I don't I mean I think

voting the the whole idea of voting is

it's there's a magical element here this

mystery of I think that the last

election in the United

States indicated the the reality of the

vote in this country I mean people are

trying to wonder are we living in a

banana republic in the United States

when when a presidential candidate can

get the popular vote and you lose the

election well I have to wonder what well

why am i voting hmm I mean seriously why

am i voting all right so I don't know I

mean I don't if men are gonna vote I

think their image should suppose why not

I don't know problem with that I think

it's just logic that I think we have to

question the entire see for me I I want

to question the whole system I mean do I

really I don't federalism is a very

strange form of government I think to

have Washington DC dictating how Irvine

should run their local I think people

locally should decide their own people

say without shoving it into the local

community I mean I would I'm a

libertarian when it comes to that type

my position you know just let let people

locally decide what they need to do if

people locally want to have prayers in

school why can't they have prayers in

school if you've got a hundred percent

Christian community in in Idaho they

should be found the government tell them

they can't add 25 minutes before they

start their classes whereas if you have

Hindus and Buddhists and Jews and and

and and secular humanists or a Marxist

that say they don't want to have that

will have five minutes of silence and

everybody can do what they want where

they can do their homework or something

but this idea of dictating the people

like these are these potato wise men to

learn it elders are going to dictate for

us how we should run our families and

our societies I think that you're an

infant for seven years of your life and

then you begin to take responsibility

and by the time you reach adulthood if

you haven't worked out what you need to


you've either been poorly raised or

something seriously wrong with you what

challenges do you think we women face in

this society today

I think women need to decide that for

themselves I think that I would say the

for me that challenges that women face

are the challenges that men face we're

wearing this together we're on the same

planet half my my family I'm married I

have a wife and I have children her

concerns are my concerns and my concerns

are her concerns and I think if you're

in a relationship that's healthy that's

that's the way it should be so I think

that what's out there in terms of the

society is as detrimental to men as it

is to women I really believe that I

think that men are up against as much

difficulty in trying to be human in this

world as women if not more if not more

okay then we appreciate you being with

us this hour and thank you very much

thank you