don't know what that means I don't know
what that means I don't know how what
led them to that point and what how
God's going to judge them one of the
things that I find interesting about
atheists and I think this has to be
appreciated by somehow is that they do
more thicker than God than most
believers and they just think about God
all the time
they write books about God every
conversation you get in with an atheist
within two minutes they're talking about
God it's amazing they just they're just
obsessed with God and in some ways their
opinion of God is so high that they end
up disbelieving in him you know it's
like if their opinion is so high that
they I can't believe in God I can't
believe in a God that will allow
pedophilia I can't believe in a guy you
know this these are the arguments along
to use it and who is it for me to say
that's a that's rubbish you're just
saying that you know there's certain you
know the cheese-and-cracker crowd you
know I mean you know having their wine
and you know I dunno how these people
can believe in God you know
really quite absurd they're imaginary
friends you know you know that kind of
there's a certain arrogance of those
type people but some of them people in
the greatest tribulation are are the
biggest believers I mean that's what's
so amazing about people in really
difficult dire circumstances and yet
they don't give up their faith in God
and they believe in a lots of behind
with data so you know there's there's
it's just not for us to judge people you
know and people can move in and out of
faith you know what you shouldn't feel
so secure about your faith you should
ask Allah for us to know ha tema and be
concerned about that I mean there's
Christians that have lost their faith
that's why these Christians say I asked
a Muslim they always doubt whether
they're going to heaven or not they
don't know but we know we're going to
heaven you don't know where there's
Christians that ended up leaving
Christianity becoming atheists Bart
Ehrman you know writing books why it's
not true and they were devout
fundamentalist Christians so people can
lose their faith Muslims lose their
faith there's people that lose their
faith in Islam you know but why and what
are the reasons and what led up to that
I don't know I mean there's people that
drive people out of Islam to prove its
allies that I'm said that he was the
advocate for the dimi that was
mistreated ano moppy amma like he's
gonna be his lawyer with god to say he
didn't he didn't see the real Islam he
was mistreated by Muslims he said that
on a huh small man other than me and
you'll know qiyama
I'm the advocate of a vim me on the day
of judgment so he's gonna actually say
don't judge him the way you would judge
somebody else cuz what happened to him
was it right so there's going to be
people in Mahmoud Abbas Adi says that if
Islam was presented in a distorted way
and somebody rejects it they're not
rejecting true Islam they're rejecting a
distortion and he says that he didn't
think they'd be taken to account for
that he says that and fights with a
taffeta cloud so
all right so any other questions I
didn't I've been kind of it's not when I
come I'm not sure if I've understood the
negatives but how would you then
reconcile for example what God says
about himself in terms of his
omnipotence and certain negatives for
example he cannot lie well like I said
what you have to what you have to
understand is that you can you can
conceptualize attributes but you can't
conceptualize the essence so we can have
a conceptualization of attributes of God
like we can conceptualize power but then
we have to recognize that that power is
not like our power but but the essence
of God you can't conceptualize it and
you can't define without conceptualizing
in essence and in that way the
definitions of God are all negative
definitions the work I think dr. Cleary
I mean dr. winter one of his contentions
is that theology is the search for the
least silly definition of God 22:22
yeah theology is the quest for the least
silly definition of God so I mean he's
pretty much saying the same thing that
we you know we define God but in the end
we're defining the undefinable so you
just always have to keep that in mind
that the Qaeda is leisa committed he che
that's the foundation of all Islamic
theology there's nothing like God
so his knowledge is not like our
knowledge but we have some approximation
of what that means because we have
knowledge like he put his attributes in
us in a limited temporal way we have
divine attributes speaking Kalam yada
some besar these are these are divine
attributes of God but there are only
approximations to for us to get a hint
at what that means
even the arkarow all the descriptions of
paradise in the Quran even a bath said
they said the Quran in the lace
virginity minute duniya Allah as smell
the only thing in paradise that's the
same as this world is the names so he's
saying the same thing even about the
creation of paradise it's male I know
and rats what are the known seminars
what I hopped on a puppy pusher jenna is
what no eye has seen no ear has heard
and no thought has ever been
conceptualized in the mind of a human if
that's about paradise then what is God
and that's just that's another creation
and we still can't conceive of it I was
guinness sorry kosher so based on this
logic is the tool by which we study all
the other sciences but it doesn't work
for Peter or we don't use it I mean much
about Peter laid our peda is it uses
logic a lot I mean for instance the
there are different bara Hien for the
existence of God the quran uses logic it
uses you know
ronita manor is a proof that God uses in
the Quran Borana topic for instance the
the idea that God is uncreated that you
can't have an infinite regress the
argument from contingency these are all
logical arguments and they're studied in
syllogistic form in the Muslim
scholastic tradition and they're you
know I mean most philosophers in the
West after Conte will argue that to use
a very hackneyed academic statement that
you can't really define you you can't
you can't prove the existence of God I
mean that's pretty much that's one of
Kant's arguments that you can't prove it
and that's even Tamia's argument as well
he argued against using logic with God
he just said it's waste of time and in
that way he's very content or can't it's
very tiny in or something like that so
but for me these are fifth oral
arguments the idea that something can
come from nothing is intuitively so it's
so against our fifth nature and so even
though quantum physics is trying to make
this argument now and there's people
like Stephen Hawking that are obsessed
with this and there's a recent slew of
books that have been written on this
subject that we've finally proven that
the universe can come from nothing you
know I don't know Allah says in surah
that calf that we didn't show you the
creation the beginning of it we need
even show the beginning of your own
creation you know so I that argument for
me is very you know but you know kundo
hadith and mahalo lucano hadith he then
had Kohima look you know that's the
argument in a really simplistic form but
the the argument for the cosmological
Kalam cosmological argument is arguably
the last argument Stan
I mean even most philosophers will have
to admit that all the arguments have
pretty much fallen by the wayside except
for the clam I mean there's some that
will argue the ontological argument is
still an argument but like the
teleological most philosophers will not
take that argument seriously
I personally teleological is very
convincing to me it certainly was a
traditional Muslim argument but the the
Kannamma cosmological argument which is
a very sophisticated argument that you
cannot have an actual infinity and by
that it means an infinity of discrete
number so you can't have an infinity of
discrete things and that if we say that
the universe is infinite then it's an
it's it's an infinity of discrete things
and that's impossible the alternative to
that is obviously pantheism or
panentheism which some people will argue
for that but the Muslims were not
pantheous if an auto b was not a
pantheist even though western scholars
don't worry antlerless scholars not not
even out of these scholars of late but
the earlier scholars people like
Nicholson and others they'll say that he
was a pantheist and that's only because
they don't have any other term in their
limited mind to describe some of his
articulations but he was